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02 viper trashed a piston
- lost #3 piston and almost#2
started by bufford69
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March 1st 2009 at 5:03 PM
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bufford69
Starting Member
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25 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 31st 2008
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Took sled out for a ride.Sled was running great. Then I stopped to to off with fuel. All the 91 ocatane pumps were out of order so I had to put in 87. Sled made it about 5 miles down the trail and I lost a cylinder. Took it apart today and found #3 piston totally trashed and #2 was on its way with #1 looking perfect. Are the cylinders nicasil plated and can I just have them honed and put in new pistons and rings? Does anyone think it was the octane of gas or just crappy gas that did this? Ordered top end kit today, hopefully get at least 1 more ride in before end of season.
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March 1st 2009 at 5:36 PM
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srx_600
www.snowmobilehotspots.com
srx_600 if its gonna be this warm i would rather have it be summer...
Updated Thursday at 8:28 PM
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2295 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: April 29th 2007
Location: South Dakota, USA
Current Sled: 2003 RMK 700 151
2008-2009 Miles: 1200
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Before you rebuild make sure you find out what caused it or else it will just melt down again. Was it running hot at all?
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March 1st 2009 at 5:55 PM
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bufford69
Starting Member
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25 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 31st 2008
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Quote originally posted by bufford69
Took sled out for a ride.Sled was running great. Then I stopped to to off with fuel. All the 91 ocatane pumps were out of order so I had to put in 87. Sled made it about 5 miles down the trail and I lost a cylinder. Took it apart today and found #3 piston totally trashed and #2 was on its way with #1 looking perfect. Are the cylinders nicasil plated and can I just have them honed and put in new pistons and rings? Does anyone think it was the octane of gas or just crappy gas that did this? Ordered top end kit today, hopefully get at least 1 more ride in before end of season.
No, the sled was running great until the gas. I already drained out all the gas from the tank and carbs. The #3 piston just looked like it got super hot and broke apart.
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March 2nd 2009 at 11:59 AM
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mmiller491
Adrenaline Junkie
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688 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 6th 2009
Location: Where ever the snow is, Michigan, USA
Current Sled: 1998 SRX 700 Triple
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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i dont see how gas could have caused this though. what type of plugs are you running? thats weird....
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March 2nd 2009 at 6:51 PM
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Brendan
Average Member
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750 Posts
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Member Since: October 12th 2004
Location: Erin, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: Yamaha Exciter 570
2008-2009 Miles: 860km's
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Go through your carbs, check your crankseals bud
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March 2nd 2009 at 6:52 PM
[ Modified March 2nd 2009 at 6:55 PM
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bufford69
Starting Member
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25 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 31st 2008
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Quote originally posted by mmiller491
i dont see how gas could have caused this though. what type of plugs are you running? thats weird....
I run BR9EYA plugs. A month ago I did get a hole in my pipe on the #3 cylinder but I did not drive any more until it got fixed. But the middle piston was on it's way to going too. Any ideas to check before putting back together? Quote originally posted by Brendan
Go through your carbs, check your crankseals bud
I just cleaned out carbs and they looked fine. I won't be able to check crank seals until it's running again right? Or is there a way to check without running?
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March 2nd 2009 at 9:33 PM
[ Modified March 2nd 2009 at 9:34 PM
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srxfig
New Member
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80 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: November 16th 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Current Sled: 99 SRX 700
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Could you "read" the plugs at all? I'm sure with a catastrophic cylinder failure there not too easy to read. But I really don't think the fuel fill up had much to do with it, just my $.02.
What was ambient temps at the time?
Are you running stock single pipe or aftermarket triples?
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March 4th 2009 at 7:13 PM
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bufford69
Starting Member
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25 Posts
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Member Since: December 31st 2008
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Quote originally posted by srxfig
Could you "read" the plugs at all? I'm sure with a catastrophic cylinder failure there not too easy to read. But I really don't think the fuel fill up had much to do with it, just my $.02.
What was ambient temps at the time?
Are you running stock single pipe or aftermarket triples?
The only plug I could read was #1 and it looked perfect. The other two were not readable. I have Hauck pipes with V-force3 reeds. The temperature was 20 at the time. I talked to a couple of people and they think the lower octane caused detonation because of the damage on the exhaust side of the piston.
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March 5th 2009 at 10:45 AM
[ Modified March 5th 2009 at 10:47 AM
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srxfig
New Member
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80 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 16th 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Current Sled: 99 SRX 700
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Well I'm no expert in the realm of detonation, but it usually will give you some telltale noise, though I've never really had it on a sled, or bike and suffered a melt-down from such a thing. For the record, where I ride, my friend has a gas pump on-site, that is for sure low octane. So I pop in some octane boost when we fill up there (which is almost the only gas we end up using) and my 99 SRX 700 has no issues.
Could be one of those things that's hard to figure out as to EXACTLY what made it happen. Sucks though, sorry man. And as an aside, we also have a triple piped '02 Viper that we fill up there too and no issues with it either. But 20-F is not too cold at all for a temperature-induced lean running situation as you well know.
It always is weird when one or two of three jugs gets smoked and one is fine you know?
I guess if anything keep some octane boost on-hand just in case and you can at least rule that one out if it ever happens again!
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March 5th 2009 at 10:59 AM
[ Modified March 5th 2009 at 10:59 AM
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MJay
Sledaholic
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6184 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 16th 2004
Location: Goose Bay, Newfoundland, Canada
Current Sled: 2006 Arctic Cat M7
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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We only have low octane gas available here. And we dont get any new fuel during the winter months. Everyone uses the same crappy low octane fuel and our sleds run fine.
If octane is the culprit then you mustve been running on the ragged edge all along. Also I hear ethanol is killer on sleds today too. Couldve been water/dirt in the gas.
For the record I know a guy with an 02 Viper with quite a bit of performance add-ons. His sled runs fine on our crappy gas.
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March 6th 2009 at 10:14 AM
[ Modified March 6th 2009 at 10:17 AM
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srxfig
New Member
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80 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 16th 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Current Sled: 99 SRX 700
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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I think I'd agree with you Mjay...I think it was something else that caused the motor meltdown. But it is a bit curious, that is, sled seems fine, fill up with fresh fuel, get back out and experience an engine failure.
A good thing to know would be how much gas the sled took? Was it totally empty? Or just half empty.
Also, I would argue that water would NOT cause a meltdown, if anything it would be a loss of power and poor running, but sure water would not carry much oil with it into the motor. And water is heavier than gasoline so it would settle to the bottom of the tank, and be the first thing sucked into the carbs. But bouncing down a trail would likely cause the water to be will-mixed with into the gas. If the machine was sitting for say an hour...all the water would go right to the bottom of the fuel however.
I know that very ofter with my boat's motor (2002 Mercury 175 outboard, EFI,not Optimax) that very very often as soon as I fill up (on land at your regular ole gas station) I will get my alarm sounding and find that I have water in my water separating filter.
If there was water, you could drain the tank and examine the fuel and very quickly be able to determine if that was/is the case...for what it's worth I'd be interested...then put the gas in your car!
But again, I don't think water would cause an engine melt down....I think it would cause running issues.
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March 9th 2009 at 6:38 PM
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SRXSRULE
Junior Member
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472 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: May 15th 2006
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: 2003 SXViper 700
2008-2009 Miles: 2000
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Water in gas will pop motors because it will freeze in the carb jets when it is cold out causing a lean condition.
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March 10th 2009 at 11:18 AM
[ Modified March 10th 2009 at 11:21 AM
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srxfig
New Member
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80 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 16th 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Current Sled: 99 SRX 700
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Quote originally posted by SRXSRULE Water in gas will pop motors because it will freeze in the carb jets when it is cold out causing a lean condition. Good point...however, if fuel was purchased and sled was driven within moments, freezing in the carbs, I argue would not and could not happen, under-hood temps are MORE than enough to keep carb's temp well above 32F, but I like your angle. Moreover, let's say you do have water in your fuel...it will ALWAYS settle to the bottom, so float bowl or tank, water is in the bottom. And though the main jet is very very low in the carb, if it were clogged from ice that sled would run horrible W/O the main doing its job. So...IMO...not a water issue that caused his meltdown. Now if this scenario were: Tank empty, fill up with watery gas, ride a short distance, park sled overnight, then ride I would find the frozen jet angle more likely. Given his meltdown scenario I still say no ice in that man's carb jets-
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March 10th 2009 at 8:31 PM
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SRXSRULE
Junior Member
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472 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: May 15th 2006
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: 2003 SXViper 700
2008-2009 Miles: 2000
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True fact that under hood temps are very warm and also the fact that he was riding above the freezing mark it would also steer me another way. However I have seen this happen a couple times just below the freezing mark.
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March 11th 2009 at 9:57 AM
[ Modified March 11th 2009 at 9:57 AM
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srxfig
New Member
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80 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 16th 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Current Sled: 99 SRX 700
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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What we can say for sure!!! Is that it ran lean or detonated, which one and why is the question?
No matter which, it sucks to melt a motor!
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March 12th 2009 at 7:26 PM
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SRXSRULE
Junior Member
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472 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: May 15th 2006
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: 2003 SXViper 700
2008-2009 Miles: 2000
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Yea at least the season is pretty much over and were not in the middle of riding. Bufford69 have you found anything yet?
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March 19th 2009 at 6:09 PM
[ Modified March 19th 2009 at 6:09 PM
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yoopermark
Theres always something
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57 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 22nd 2007
Location: Westland, Mi, USA
Current Sled: Yamaha Viper
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Any updates?? I am curious to what happened?????? I ride in a lot of places that dont have premium gas and never had a problem, I am wondering if one is about to happen?
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March 20th 2009 at 5:51 PM
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SRXSRULE
Junior Member
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472 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: May 15th 2006
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: 2003 SXViper 700
2008-2009 Miles: 2000
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Yes I am also curious as I have ran 87 in my sled many times as well.
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