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Coyote Bites started by arcticcatmatt
April 16th 2009 at 10:28 AM
 
arcticcatmatt
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Interesting
http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/641563.html

I was reading an article in a local paper yesterday about the large increase in Coyote population. I guess they captured some and tested DNA. It seems that somehow, many of these coyotes are a new breed we are not used to, they contained 10% wolf DNA. Oh here I found the paper in PDF form online

http://www.tompkinshosting.com/tompkinsw...090413.pdf





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April 16th 2009 at 11:40 AM
 
tdgbigfoot
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I read something about this last year, about dogs, wolves, and coyotes all breeding together. Wondering where it's gonna go. Mutant creatures?



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April 16th 2009 at 3:15 PM
 
ultrastud
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Here in MN we just smoke em with the deer rifle!!



General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!

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April 16th 2009 at 3:19 PM
 
driftpounder
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^^^X2 then there isn't a problem if you take a few out here and there make them scared of people.



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April 16th 2009 at 4:38 PM
 
Polaris650rxl Gold Ribbon
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Shot a few myself in the past couple years.. All they do is terrorize the animals.




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April 16th 2009 at 8:53 PM
 
ProXR racer
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well thats a great article except for the part about coydogs! not true theres no such thing, if your any type of biology major it would be obvious. coyotes and dogs cannot produce viable offspring.



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April 16th 2009 at 8:57 PM
 
srx_600
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^^You must be a biology major im assuming then?

I think thats crazy that they are like that in your area, around here its nothing like that. Most of them get shot pretty quick.




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April 16th 2009 at 10:56 PM  [ Modified April 16th 2009 at 10:56 PM ]
 
Polaristhewayout
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Us too ^^, most of the people even keep bats under the hoods of there sleds just in case.




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April 16th 2009 at 11:01 PM
 
srx_600
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^^Dont have any of that here, but out in the hills we have seen quite a few they seem to scat pretty quick because they know the dangers of humans.




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April 16th 2009 at 11:16 PM
 
bobp53916
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Quote originally posted by ProXR racer

well thats a great article except for the part about coydogs! not true theres no such thing, if your any type of biology major it would be obvious. coyotes and dogs cannot produce viable offspring.


Not doubting you or anything, just curious why its not possible.





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April 16th 2009 at 11:26 PM
 
driftpounder
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Quote originally posted by ProXR racer

well thats a great article except for the part about coydogs! not true theres no such thing, if your any type of biology major it would be obvious. coyotes and dogs cannot produce viable offspring.


I'm no Biology major, but I have seen and shot coydogs. I would think that they are much like a Mule. A horse and a donkey breed to produce a mule, but it can't reproduce. So a dog and a coyote could breed and produce an offspring that can not reproduce.



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April 17th 2009 at 8:07 AM
 
TRICKPaint
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There is a mom with pups in the woods behind my house. From the sounds (yelping at feeding time) I'm guessing 1/2 a mile away. I don't want to bug her. Hope she and her pups make it 'OK. They are beautiful animals!




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April 17th 2009 at 8:20 AM
 
arcticcatmatt
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^ Yeah beautiful when hanging on my wall!




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April 17th 2009 at 9:01 AM  [ Modified April 17th 2009 at 9:03 AM ]
 
TRICKPaint
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^I was sort of expecting that. Maybe not that quickly. Guess I'll have to lock your weapons down if you ever make it down here. Mama Coyote will be sad.
Uncle ACM wants to drive a hunk of lead into my cranium Mom!




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April 17th 2009 at 9:13 AM
 
mmiller491
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Dog hybrids are becoming all to common, its kind of interesting.



next thing you know these are the dogs we will be seeing on the streets!





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April 17th 2009 at 10:51 AM  [ Modified April 17th 2009 at 10:59 AM ]
 
soltvedt
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I just cut and pasted the infomation into text here for everyone:

================================================================================
================================================================================

Wily Coyote Makes His Presence Known
(Source: http://www.tompkinshosting.com/tompkinsw...090413.pdf)

By Karen Scott

It started several years ago, when
one of my coworkers solemnly
assured me that the Clinton administration
was secretly releasing
wolves in upstate New York. Then,
a few weeks later, one of our clients
also assured me that “we” were
working to re-establish wolves in
New York State. I laughed at the
naiveté of humans, until the coyotes
started moving into my neighborhood.
These animals were bigger, bolder
and louder than the little sprites
that used to flit through the underbrush
in Northern California.
Genetic studies done over the last
few decades confirm: Eastern
Coyotes have hybridized with
wolves and carry 10 percent wolf
DNA (http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.com/eas...etics.html).
[See information next article]

Individual coyote sightings have
become commonplace near my
yard, but always one at a time. They
seem to leave the chickens alone.
Like the foxes, they probably prefer
our generous supply of rabbits;
most predators do not like a mouth
full of feathers. The only coyote we
ever caught chasing chickens
couldn’t get the hen before he was
chased off, and he was hit on the
road a few months later, a pathetic,
flea-bitten corpse.

Another, less reticent neighbor
was a very large, dark grey coyote
that could regularly be seen from
the road, boldly visiting a roadkill
deer carcass or hunting in a cow
pasture. This animal was very uncoyote
like, and may have been a
coydog.

What seems most unusual, however,
is the sound the pack coyotes
make when they are running
together in the undeveloped lands
that surround us. Anytime from
dusk to early morning they may
start up it sounds as if they are covering
a lot of ground together, yelping
and howling and getting the
neighborhood dogs into a frenzy.
The experts all insist that coyotes
don’t hunt in packs like wolves, but
listening to them is scary.

To find out more about our West
Hill coyotes, I called local expert
James Brown. I asked him if he had
seen any coyotes lately. “I’m looking
right at one,” he said. “She’s in
a chair in my living room.” Since
he hunts coyotes, I was taken
aback, but it turns out that “she” is
a pet coydog, rescued from a local
SPCA.

When I made my question more
specific, he confirmed that he regularly
sees the wild animals. Most
recently, there were a dozen together
in his barn trying to get into his
chicken coop, again. It is less than a
couple weeks since a neighbor of
his saw them chase down and kill a
deer. Despite what the experts say,
Brown says the coyotes are usually
together, often during the day, and
he believes they hunt together
cooperatively.

His description of their deer
hunting method is the same as
what I have seen in a dog pack that
was led by an animal that was often
suspected of being part coyote. The
pack fans out to troll for prey. If one
of them finds a deer, it starts yelping
as it chases, and the other animals
answer as they converge on
the sound of the one who has the
deer. Brown can’t say whether they
drive the deer toward each other,
but they certainly tag-team it until
it is exhausted. This would explain
the fierceness of the sound and the
ground they cover.

Other neighbors have also seen
them up here. Alan Akers used to
sit in the woods and keep notebooks
of what animals he saw, and he
believes that the influx of coyotes
has depressed the rabbit, pheasant
and turkey populations.

Brown has been hunting coyotes
for decades, and he agrees with the
official line that hunting does not
necessarily suppress population. In
packs, not every female breeds
every year. Breaking up packs so
that you have more small groups
means more pups. Coyotes also
respond to hunting pressure by producing
larger litters and breeding
younger.

Roland Kays, Curator of
Mammals at the New York State
Museum (http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/research_colle...mammalogy/),
is working on a
genetic survey of New York State
coyotes. He confirms that our coyotes
are bigger and have a greater
variety of color than Western coyotes
and they eat more deer.
However, he is frankly dubious
when I say that they are running
together, call on the move or do
more than scavenge deer. He says
that most of the animals being
studied are suburban, not rural.
Even Cornell is going to
Westchester County to do a coyote
study. According the Kays, these
coyotes are usually young, territory-
less transient animals trying to
avoid trespassing on a pack while
looking for a good territory.

Perhaps it is time that someone
saw our area as an opportunity to
study a different kind of coyote.

================================================================================
================================================================================

Eastern Coyote Genetics
(Source: http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.com/eas...etics.html)

October 28, 2007. BIG UPDATE: Genetic results are in and Eastern Coyotes appear to be genetically distinct; they are not western coyotes nor eastern wolves. They are a hybrid and probably should be classified as a new species.

I have been collaborating with Brad White's genetic team at Trent University and they just finished the genetic results of our eastern Massachusetts (about 75) samples. Here is what Brad has to say, "I am attaching an analysis on the genomes of your animals compared to other coyotes and eastern wolves. Essentially - green is eastern coyote, blue is western coyote and red is eastern wolf. Your animals seem mainly eastern coyote with more western coyote than some other eastern coyote populations."

[See image below] to view the [results] of our samples (labeled Jon Way) versus other regions including eastern wolves of Alongquin Provincial Park in Ontario. Brad and I will be collaborating on a manuscript together to discuss these results. We will probably target the journal Northeastern Naturalist.

Basically, Brad believes the eastern coyote should be classified as its own species. You can see that our samples match up closely with New York (including the Adirondacks) and Maine. All eastern samples have western coyote DNA in their samples (although our eastern Mass. samples have slightly more western coyote introgression). Additionally, all eastern coyote samples have eastern wolf (same species as red wolf) introgression as well. However, they all line up distinctively as eastern coyotes. I am not sure if we will be able to call the eastern coyote a new species until we sample throughout the northeast and determine where they become less "eastern coyote" and more "western coyote". However, we will certainly be able to report that the eastern coyote is indeed distinct.

I should also note that I am not a geneticist so I hope I described this accurately. Again, to view the powerpoint slide showing this, [see image below] !

Coyote Wolf Mix
Coyote Wolf Mix





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April 17th 2009 at 11:39 AM
 
mmiller491
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interesting read, i didnt know coyotes didnt hunt in packs. only time ive ever seen coyotes hunting was in the feild next to ours for rabbit, and there was about 4 or 5 of them, I cant remember. Most of the time I see them by themselves.




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April 17th 2009 at 8:30 PM
 
RMK-Queen
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An interesting thing about coyotes is when there are fewer of them in an area, they have more pups. And when there are too many in an area they have fewer young. Just a random fact




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April 17th 2009 at 8:54 PM
 
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Quote originally posted by RMK-Queen

An interesting thing about coyotes is when there are fewer of them in an area, they have more pups. And when there are too many in an area they have fewer young. Just a random fact


If I interpreted this correctly, it means

the more coyotes shot/trapped, the more available to shoot/trap next year?






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April 17th 2009 at 9:25 PM
 
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ya vermont did a test on a couple of coyites shot over by my moms house, a red one and a dark gray one they both turned out to be wolf/coyotie hybreds. a freind of mine shot a reddish coyotie that weight close to 60 pounds this winter. i beleive the ones they tested last year were closer to 50 percent wolf. and all the ones ive seen lately have been pack hunting in groups of 3 or 4.



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April 17th 2009 at 10:13 PM  [ Modified April 17th 2009 at 10:15 PM ]
 
arcticcatmatt
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Quote originally posted by TRICKPaint

^I was sort of expecting that. Maybe not that quickly. Guess I'll have to lock your weapons down if you ever make it down here. Mama Coyote will be sad.
Uncle ACM wants to drive a hunk of lead into my cranium Mom!



Last year one of our guys was surrounded by them in his tree stand while we were trying to "rescue" him. He shot one with his bow and ran like hell! Blood everywhere! Screw them bastards!

POw Pow pow!


I enjoy looking at the dead one hanging on the wall in my spare room.. it is one of the two I pushed to my old man last year
dads coyotes
dads coyotes







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April 20th 2009 at 7:06 AM
 
mmiller491
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Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt


POw Pow pow!





This picture has to be photoshopped.




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April 20th 2009 at 8:00 AM
 
ProXR racer
this weather needs to straiten up!
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^^ no most likly its yawning, ive seen wolf pics and cougar pics when they yawn and they look like there about to bite. if you think about it all dogs were created form wolves. even the little yappy dogs. so ofcourse they have 10 % wolf DNA. the reason there larger and more agresive in NY is becouse they are the top preditor much like the wolf is in yellowstone. when wolves were reintroduced into yellowstone, coyote populations droped and the size of the animal also got smaller. this would happen in new york if we had wolves however we dont and coyotes are top preditor. so they have nothing except humans to keep them in check. they are adapting to being more like wolves becouse they can and theres no evolution pressure not to. so one again if you think all dogs were created from wolves so they all have wolf DNA. the reasoning behind coydogs is unlikly in NY. coydogs as there called occur from a whild animal which will kill a pet if given a chance. they say they breed at the upper most range of coyotes well thats north of alaska. this is becouse they cant find a coyote mate and kindof settle with what they have. i belive there is DNA reasoning whic i can not think of but i will post it later becouse my GF is in genetics.



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April 20th 2009 at 8:59 AM
 
mmiller491
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Quote originally posted by ProXR racer

^^ no most likly its yawning, ive seen wolf pics and cougar pics when they yawn and they look like there about to bite. if you think about it all dogs were created form wolves. even the little yappy dogs. so ofcourse they have 10 % wolf DNA. the reason there larger and more agresive in NY is becouse they are the top preditor much like the wolf is in yellowstone. when wolves were reintroduced into yellowstone, coyote populations droped and the size of the animal also got smaller. this would happen in new york if we had wolves however we dont and coyotes are top preditor. so they have nothing except humans to keep them in check. they are adapting to being more like wolves becouse they can and theres no evolution pressure not to. so one again if you think all dogs were created from wolves so they all have wolf DNA. the reasoning behind coydogs is unlikly in NY. coydogs as there called occur from a whild animal which will kill a pet if given a chance. they say they breed at the upper most range of coyotes well thats north of alaska. this is becouse they cant find a coyote mate and kindof settle with what they have. i belive there is DNA reasoning whic i can not think of but i will post it later becouse my GF is in genetics.


Excellent point, I gave it a +1.




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April 20th 2009 at 12:35 PM  [ Modified April 20th 2009 at 12:41 PM ]
 
ProXR racer
this weather needs to straiten up!
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i now have the genetical proof since i was reminded. the reason geneticly dogs and coyotes can not reproduce is they are different species. now a biology definition of species is something that has evolved but is seperated and can not reproduce. for example there are two different squirrels one on each side of the grand canyon. this is a true example but i cant think of there names. anyway they were once the same species however becouse of influences such as the grand canyon they can no longer reproduce. after being seperated long enoph the become there own species becouse there genetical code has changed slightly over hundreds or thousands of years. now if they were to be put into the same areas once again they can not reproduce with eachother becouse they are a different species through evolution as some call it but basicly its called by pressure or isolation. this is the same with coyotes. at one time coyotes, wolves and dogs could have however becouse of all the minipulation to dogs that ahve been done they are now a different species and they can no longer have offspring. this is a family tree of canidae which is the family which dogs, woves and coyotes are in.


FAMILY CANIDAE

Subfamily: Caninae

-True dogs - Tribe Canini
-----Genus Canis
------------Side-striped Jackal, Canis adustus
-------------Golden Jackal, Canis aureus
-------------Coyote, Canis latrans(also called Prairie Wolf)
-------------Gray Wolf, Canis lupus (2.723 Ma to present)
******************Domestic Dog, Canis lupus familiaris
******************Dingo, most often classified as Canis lupus dingo
******************New Guinea Singing Dog, Canis lupus hallstromi
******************Indian Wolf, Canis indica (sometimes considered a separate species)
******************Himalayan Wolf, Canis himalayensis (sometimes considered a separate species)
******************many other proposed subspecies
^^^ this can be seen under wikipedia even tho i hate using the site they are correct here.

as you can see they are entirly different species. but as i said before the biggest reaason they would not breed is becouse of there behavior.here are some quotes
"The reason there is little evidence of coyotes mating with dogs in the wild is simply because social habits and statistics makes the opportunity and probability of mating quite low indeed",
"The coyote social structure is somewhat different from the domestic canine, and, quite frankly, coyotes would rather eat a dog than befriend one. Coyotes also have very different breeding cycles and mating behaviors. It is believed the male coyote sperm count remains low or dormant for most of the year and only picks up for about 60 days in the spring in conjunction with the female coyotes once a year heat cycle"

i hope this is enoph to show that they can exsist, yes there is that slight! posibblity that it may happen but not to the extent of coydogs running around everywhere. the problem right now is that they are changing more to be a top preditor like the wolf where wolves are not present. this shows even more diversity between dogs and coyotes.



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