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GM=Government Motors, I think we need a change.
- GM=Government Motors, I think we need a change
started by the_hog
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July 29th 2009 at 9:00 PM
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the_hog
Builder/Owner of a real MOD sled!
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1844 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: November 12th 2003
Location: Eastern MT/Western ND, USA
Current Sled: CMX/PSI Mod, 01 SRX
2008-2009 Miles: 14.5
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...QD99NO3FO0
This blows my mind, a Government controlled company canceling a domestic contract for an overseas supplier. I think its time the government made a change and starts bring jobs back State side and not exporting them. I don't understand how someone can support a company that does something like this in our present economy.
1200 WC coming soon
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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July 29th 2009 at 9:58 PM
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wilb
Advanced Member
wilb Rush is in.
Updated Last Monday at 5:45 PM
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1509 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 24th 2005
Location: Cuba City, WI, USA
Current Sled: 2010 Rush
2008-2009 Miles: 2016
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That does seem kind of crazy. The sad part is that they can get it from russia or south africa and ship it here and still be cheaper than a us supplier. The way they look at it though is that they are in financial trouble and they need to reduce the cost they have in the product. What they need to do is eleminate the unions. The unions had a time and a place but it is not for this day and age. The employees have more power than the bosses and they have way overused there power. They would be better off to elimenate the unions and rehire everyone at a more resonable wage.
Btw im buying a 09 GMC Sierra tommorow
2010 Rush Snowchecked
09 600 Dragon Sp traded on rush
07 600 IQ LX Sold for dragon
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July 29th 2009 at 10:16 PM
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what strikes me as funny is we, the taxpayer were told if we didn't bail out the auto industry 10's of thousands of jobs would be lost, well low and behold GM came out of bankruptcy, 1000's of suppliers got screwed, 10's of thousands of people lost their jobs, many small investors got the shaft but the UAW and GM cam out smelling like a rose!! The auto bailout was nothing more than Obama repaying the union for 100's of millions in campain contributions!!
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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July 29th 2009 at 10:29 PM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts 
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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^ Can't totally agree with you Ultra.. being a GM supplier I have to say we didn't get screwed and thanks to the automakers getting a government loan, 6 people in my family still have a roof over their heads.
Every company on this planet has flaws. I blame alot of it on the consumers that don't care that the profits from their toyota went to Japan and chances are most of their parts came from there also (since the majority of toyotas are less than 50% domestic parts content).
Things are starting to look up so lets hope for a better and brighter future for us all.
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July 29th 2009 at 10:55 PM
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2SEWINGS
Average Member
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715 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2003
Location: Hopkins, Mn
Current Sled: 05 RS Rage
2008-2009 Miles: 1081
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Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
^ Can't totally agree with you Ultra.. being a GM supplier I have to say we didn't get screwed and thanks to the automakers getting a government loan, 6 people in my family still have a roof over their heads.
Every company on this planet has flaws. I blame alot of it on the consumers that don't care that the profits from their toyota went to Japan and chances are most of their parts came from there also (since the majority of toyotas are less than 50% domestic parts content).
Things are starting to look up so lets hope for a better and brighter future for us all.
I'm kind of tossed in this matter since I work for a foreign car company and also own a Toyota. Profits to the manufacturer are one thing but what keeps people employed is another matter entirely.
I have worked for foreign carmakers since 1993, is that so bad? I don't think so! It has managed to keep myself and my wife to live comfortably for the last 16 years!
By the way, the Toyota I drive was produced here in the US of A, how many jobs does that support? Where the profits go in my opinion is irrelevant as to where the workforce to support our market comes from.
People need to look at things from a slightly different angle, foreign manufacturers do help keep people employed here in our homeland...
It's all about the ride to get there, the destination doesn't matter!
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July 30th 2009 at 12:11 AM
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I would have to say that your company was one of the lucky ones then Matt, many of GM's smaller suppliers got pennies on the dollar for what GM owed them...
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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July 30th 2009 at 8:21 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 8:27 AM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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Quote originally posted by 2SEWINGS Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt ^ Can't totally agree with you Ultra.. being a GM supplier I have to say we didn't get screwed and thanks to the automakers getting a government loan, 6 people in my family still have a roof over their heads. Every company on this planet has flaws. I blame alot of it on the consumers that don't care that the profits from their toyota went to Japan and chances are most of their parts came from there also (since the majority of toyotas are less than 50% domestic parts content). Things are starting to look up so lets hope for a better and brighter future for us all. I'm kind of tossed in this matter since I work for a foreign car company and also own a Toyota. Profits to the manufacturer are one thing but what keeps people employed is another matter entirely. I have worked for foreign carmakers since 1993, is that so bad? I don't think so! It has managed to keep myself and my wife to live comfortably for the last 16 years! By the way, the Toyota I drive was produced here in the US of A, how many jobs does that support? Where the profits go in my opinion is irrelevant as to where the workforce to support our market comes from. People need to look at things from a slightly different angle, foreign manufacturers do help keep people employed here in our homeland... Your truck is included in one of the few I mentioned. Your truck (07 tundra (IIRC)) is 75% domestic content and assembled in the united states. That is decent, but unfortunately the profits go overseas. To compare it.. I guess to compare it, in 2007 you could have got an F-150 that was 90% north american content and assembled in the united states and profits stay here. I could go thru and compare domestic content for ford/gm/toyota but just looking at it is laughable who contributes the most to the domestic economy (list for 07, the year of your truck) http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT...A2007a.pdfAnd for tacomas and corollas, they are only built in the same plant as GM's at NUMMI.. Until now. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/...plant.htmlThat relates to hogs post.. There is toyota pulling out of california so gm is not the only one up rooting some locations. 5,000 people loosing their jobs there. 5,000 may not sound like much but that is a HUGE number and the ripple affect will flow VERY far. Many more than 5,000 will lose their jobs (because of indirect labor relations). Comparing how many americans are employed by foreign makers vs. domestic makers would be idiotic as domestics employ a crap ton more. Interesting site here http://www.levelfieldinstitute.orgI also compared a colorado to a tundra for ****s and giggles with their JPC rating and how they got the rating. Tundra got 32.. colorado got 78.. But back to business here, that first link I posted spells it out in black and white. GM employs a crapton more people. Facts are facts. I am glad you are still employed 2sewings! Regardless of our personal opinions on the matter!
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July 30th 2009 at 8:41 AM
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Ugly_old_Poo_kid
techno-bumpkin
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1079 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 18th 2007
Location: Walworth, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 Edge & Frankenstorm II
2008-2009 Miles: 165
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The profits, actually go to the stockholders..
If you want to follow the money, find the major stockholders.
95 - Storm 800 - Modded - AKA: FrankenStorm - Totalled near 100mph at Tug Hill!
96 - XLT/SP with Storm 800 trip/trip and now EFI - FrankenStorm II lives...
95 - RXL -- Sale Pending --
05 - Edge 800 long track - Stayin' stock for now..
---------------------------------------------
It made me more compassionate, more empathetic, more nurturing...
I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN MY OWN WORST NIGHTMARE!!!
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July 30th 2009 at 9:21 AM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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^ GM's largest stockholder at the moment is the government because of your tax dollars. So right now, we are the largest stockholders of GM.. even more reason to hope things continue to improve with the new GM.
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July 30th 2009 at 9:44 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 9:46 AM
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flatlander_summit
The Law
flatlander_summit combined yesterday, combining today...
Updated Last Sunday at 9:15 AM
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1173 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 3rd 2005
Location: Jamestown, ND, USA
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Matt, I don't agree with you on buying only domestic vehicles. There are dealerships in the USA who sell imported vehicles as well. Those individuals that work at the dealerships and provide those dealers services need to remain employed as well. Buying an import still maintains jobs in our country no matter how you want to throw the propaganda out there that it doesn't.
I'm in agreement that the unions need to go as well as the huge retirement and benefit packages that have been given to the auto workers for years now. I attended 7 years of college and am working as an attorney which is supposed to be a high skilled profession that is paid well. However, there are individuals that are members of auto unions who have no additional education and who have a job that requires little to no training and little to no additional skills, repetetively turning the same bolt for 12 hours a day who are making twice the salary I am and are probably eligible for 10x the retirement that I will have. I don't believe that a person with no skill set out there should be earning anywhere near this sort of wage. There is something wrong with that picture.
Currently, I am dealing with warranty issues with the transmission in my Avalanche. I didn't buy it because I'm worried about where my money is going. When I buy a vehicle, I buy it because I like it, and have researched the dependability of that particular vehicle. In some way my money is going to help individuals in the state regardless of where the profits end up. My vehicle was a little over a year old when I bought it, but I bought it from a mom and pop dealership from where I grew up. The profits that dealership made from that vehicle were passed down to the employees many of whom I grew up and attended school with. I bought a domestic vehicle at that dealership, but had I bought an import that money still would have gone back into my hometown. This might be my last domestic or at least GM vehicle if I'm not satisfied with the way I'm treated with my warranty claim. As of right now I'm pissed, I was left without a loaner vehicle and an uncertain date when my pickup would be completed with a simple "I'm sorry if this has caused you inconvenience." If GM wants to keep their customer loyal it's time they do something for those of us who have are continuing to buy their vehicles.
One last thing, until the last year or so if you had looked at many of the publicly traded companies owner portfolios you would have seen many of the investors being foreign investors meaning the profits those companies saw were going overseas.
04 MXZx 440
03 MXZx 800 Factory Mod--soon to be 144 with some more goodies.
99 Summit X 670
98 MXZ 583
It's starting to look like I bleed yellow.
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July 30th 2009 at 9:52 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 9:53 AM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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^ That is propaganda about their pay. I know a ton of those "unskilled wrench turners" and they are not making 2x what a attorney is.
Can't bash the avalance. Doesn't seem to be a common issue. Bash the dealer. My bro had a problem with an old chevy truck a few years ago. Warranty claim. Dealer thru him a loaner for a week till it was fixed.
Can't say toyota comes out smelling like a rose. Coworker had to ride with another coworker for over a week because his toyota tranny went and they did not give him a loaner either.
I won't go on and on. I spoke the facts and why I feel the way I do and that is that.
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July 30th 2009 at 10:24 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 10:32 AM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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I love how people say unions have to go because the worker's get paid a descent wage for doing the job they are paid to do And descent health care. How dare they make money to support a family!!
[/quote]
Hey flatty......nothing worse than a blood sucking lawyer! J/K 
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July 30th 2009 at 10:47 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 10:53 AM
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Festus33
SNO PROwler
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1285 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 25th 2006
Location: Mukwonago, Wi., USA
Current Sled: Eccentrica and Da Prowla
2008-2009 Miles: 647
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Quote originally posted by Rock
I love how people say unions have to go because the worker's get paid a descent wage for doing the job they are paid to do And descent health care. How dare they make money to support a family!!
[/quote]
Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?.
I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World.
Rick's .02
Let's Take All the Warning Label's Off,
and let Nature Sort it Out !!!
1998 A.C. EXT 600 Triple/Triple
1990 A.C. Prowler 440 SNO PROwler
1987 A.C. ElTigre 440
1994 A.C. Tigershark 640 Daytona
www.johnmaster.net (Snowmobile Traction Product's)
mpsalvage@msn.com ( Snowmobile Salvage and Part's)
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July 30th 2009 at 10:48 AM
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There is a big difference Rock between earning a good wage and running companies or entire INDUSTRIES such as the auto AND steel industry in this country into bankruptcy, the wage/benifit issue is only the tip of iceberg to what a union does to a compay or industry! I get to deal wth union workers in the food service unions (grocery warehouses) on a weekly basis, getting those lazy b*stards to actually work would take a small miricle!!
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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July 30th 2009 at 10:55 AM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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Please.......Maybe screwed up mgmt has something to do with companies going under or maybe it's the multi billions these ceo's get paid!dont give me this crap that union's dont work! I am a member of the CWA and the companies that have the CWA are making money hand over fist!
How about the Teamsters?
UPS is a huge staple and their employee's are paid union scale with all the bennies and guess what.......they make a ton of dough!!~!!!!!
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July 30th 2009 at 11:03 AM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 11:04 AM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over an hour ago
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12582 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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The uaw got alittle greedy when the auto market was making big $$'s hand over fist.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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July 30th 2009 at 11:03 AM
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duece
Junior Member
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227 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 26th 2007
Location: brookfeild, ma, USA
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We are stock holders without dividends. tax payers were forced to bail out this black hole and we will never get anything out of it .I have worked in union auto plants and i see things that take an hour at a non union plant takes all day at a union plant .you need an electrician to connect a plug ,a plumber to connect a water hose, a millwright to tighten a bolt?I have been a feild service mechanic for 20 years and the janitor at these plants probbly makes more than i do .When you see how these plants are from the inside I dont feel bad for them at all.
gerald j sullivan
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July 30th 2009 at 11:10 AM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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Quote originally posted by xcr440
The uaw got alittle greedy when the auto market was making big $$'s hand over fist.
So when the co. is doing good only the Mgmt should get the bennies from it?
Why shouldnt the Employee's who actaully do the physical work get a share of the pie?
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July 30th 2009 at 11:16 AM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over an hour ago
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12582 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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Quote originally posted by Rock
Quote originally posted by xcr440
The uaw got alittle greedy when the auto market was making big $$'s hand over fist.
So when the co. is doing good only the Mgmt should get the bennies from it?
Why shouldnt the Employee's who actaully do the physical work get a share of the pie?
I am not saying they did anything wrong on either side. Both parties should have given on either side, which is why they are in the boat, they are in.
When they seen the market was slumping they should have given up some of there bennies, managment, company and shop floor should have work together to survive the storm.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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July 30th 2009 at 11:44 AM
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YamahaRider34
Let snowmobiling begin!!!
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203 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 24th 2009
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 87 Yamaha Enticer 340
2008-2009 Miles: 570
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Nice the 09's are better for gas mileage that the old ones
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July 30th 2009 at 12:11 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 12:20 PM
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flatlander_summit
The Law
flatlander_summit combined yesterday, combining today...
Updated Last Sunday at 9:15 AM
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1173 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 3rd 2005
Location: Jamestown, ND, USA
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I must be misinformed on the definition of propaganda Matt. I didn't know that propaganda included hearing salaries right from the horse's mouth, I guess my education is failing me again and now I don't know much of the English language...
I guess I didn't make myself clear on the situation. I understand that in a small area that the dealer isn't going to have the resources to get to my vehicle immediately, that simply an economics issue. However, I'm infuriated that I was left having to drive to my farm to get another vehicle because they would not give me a loaner vehicle, which there is a provision stating that GM will provide either a loaner or reimburse for a rental (which appears I'm not eligible for either), stated in the warranty information online. However, what they fail to tell a person is that they must determine that the repair needed is caused by factory defect and nothing caused by me before they give you a loaner vehicle. In my case, something internally happened with the transmission, more than likely some burning of the clutches. I chose not to drive it to cause any further damage to the transmission. Next time when something happens to my pickup I will be driving it up until the minute they can get it in the shop regardless of how much further damage is caused. I'm not going to cost myself extra time, money, and inconvenience for GM to save a buck.
This is not a dealer issue. I have spoken directly with the GM district rep on this issue. Little does he know that I'm going to make his life a living hell until I'm satisfied.
04 MXZx 440
03 MXZx 800 Factory Mod--soon to be 144 with some more goodies.
99 Summit X 670
98 MXZ 583
It's starting to look like I bleed yellow.
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July 30th 2009 at 12:26 PM
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picman
Junior Member
picman is off to bag his buck. I hope. Skunked so far.
Updated Wednesday at 1:17 PM
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308 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 15th 2009
Location: Marinette, WI, USA
Current Sled: 1998 Polaris Ultra
2008-2009 Miles: 1145
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Quote originally posted by xcr440
Quote originally posted by Rock
Quote originally posted by xcr440
The uaw got alittle greedy when the auto market was making big $$'s hand over fist.
So when the co. is doing good only the Mgmt should get the bennies from it?
Why shouldnt the Employee's who actaully do the physical work get a share of the pie?
I am not saying they did anything wrong on either side. Both parties should have given on either side, which is why they are in the boat, they are in.
When they seen the market was slumping they should have given up some of there bennies, managment, company and shop floor should have work together to survive the storm.
Brother, you nailed that one right on the head!! One good thing about the gov. owning so much of GM, the CEO got the boot-saving us millions per year in salary. Too bad he probably had that golden parachute in his contract.
Find the line between respect and fear....then flirt with it
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July 30th 2009 at 12:43 PM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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Quote originally posted by Festus33
Quote originally posted by Rock
Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?.
I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World.
Rick's .02
Rick, Not saying you are wrong as I do not know a floor sweeper in the UAW. But, can you please post a link to maybe their contract that shows that a floor sweeper gets paid $28 an hour at their labor grade?
Just stating the number, makes the post useless. Giving a link to it in the contract would make it hold merit.
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July 30th 2009 at 1:36 PM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 25th 2004
Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
Current Sled: 99xcr 800
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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were all going to be in a world of hurt unless a whole bunch of things change
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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July 30th 2009 at 1:38 PM
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uponone
Junior Member
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145 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 29th 2008
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Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
Quote originally posted by Festus33
Quote originally posted by Rock
Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?.
I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World.
Rick's .02
Rick, Not saying you are wrong as I do not know a floor sweeper in the UAW. But, can you please post a link to maybe their contract that shows that a floor sweeper gets paid $28 an hour at their labor grade?
Just stating the number, makes the post useless. Giving a link to it in the contract would make it hold merit.
Its possible for a floor sweeper to be making that much, but its not exactly a starting position either.
In a unionized environment, seniority is key. The guy with the easiest job may be making top wage, but hes also been there for 30+ years.
Anyone on starting wage has the worst job in the place, I can grantee you that.
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