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GM=Government Motors, I think we need a change.
- GM=Government Motors, I think we need a change
started by the_hog
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July 30th 2009 at 2:03 PM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
Quote originally posted by Festus33
Quote originally posted by Rock
Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?.
I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World.
Rick's .02
Rick, Not saying you are wrong as I do not know a floor sweeper in the UAW. But, can you please post a link to maybe their contract that shows that a floor sweeper gets paid $28 an hour at their labor grade?
Just stating the number, makes the post useless. Giving a link to it in the contract would make it hold merit.
Matt, There's no one sweeping the floors in a union shop making that kind of money!!!!
It's just perception by the anti-union basher's!
I am part of the CWA and the co. I work for outsources for custodian work!
The union auto shops are within 2 bucks an hour with the likes of Yota wich is non union shop!
And as long as we are on the subject the Yota's and the Honda's are being propped up by the Japanese Gov't.....it isnt just the good old USA.
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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July 30th 2009 at 2:06 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 2:08 PM
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RMK-KING
The Fabricator Moderator
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9125 Posts 
Group: Moderators
Member Since: October 3rd 2002
Location: Center and Roseglen, ND, USA
Current Sled: 09 RMK 700 & 06 IQr 600
2008-2009 Miles: 550
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Quote originally posted by uponone Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt Quote originally posted by Festus33 Quote originally posted by Rock Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?. I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World. Rick's .02 Rick, Not saying you are wrong as I do not know a floor sweeper in the UAW. But, can you please post a link to maybe their contract that shows that a floor sweeper gets paid $28 an hour at their labor grade? Just stating the number, makes the post useless. Giving a link to it in the contract would make it hold merit. Its possible for a floor sweeper to be making that much, but its not exactly a starting position either. In a unionized environment, seniority is key. The guy with the easiest job may be making top wage, but hes also been there for 30+ years. Anyone on starting wage has the worst job in the place, I can grantee you that. At our plant a floor sweeper is around $24/hr. I do not agree with "Anyone on starting wage has the worst job in the place, I can grantee you that." I am near the bottom at my job right now and have it the easiest out of all of them,as you advance you get more responsibility and pay.
Current Line Up
-09 RMK Assault
-06 IQ R 600HO
-01 ProX 600
-95 XCR 600
Days get shorter,snow gets deeper,life gets better.
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July 30th 2009 at 2:13 PM
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uponone
Junior Member
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145 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: August 29th 2008
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Quote originally posted by RMK-KING
Quote originally posted by uponone
Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
Quote originally posted by Festus33
Quote originally posted by Rock
Where in the World aside from the UAW is a floor sweeper's starting wage $28.00 hr?.
I'm not saying the Union's have to go, but they do need to get in line with the Real World.
Rick's .02
Rick, Not saying you are wrong as I do not know a floor sweeper in the UAW. But, can you please post a link to maybe their contract that shows that a floor sweeper gets paid $28 an hour at their labor grade?
Just stating the number, makes the post useless. Giving a link to it in the contract would make it hold merit.
Its possible for a floor sweeper to be making that much, but its not exactly a starting position either.
In a unionized environment, seniority is key. The guy with the easiest job may be making top wage, but hes also been there for 30+ years.
Anyone on starting wage has the worst job in the place, I can grantee you that. At our plant a floor sweeper is around $24/hr.
I do not agree with "Anyone on starting wage has the worst job in the place, I can grantee you that."
I am near the bottom at my job right now and have it the easiest out of all of them,as you advance you get more responsibility and pay.
Which union do you belong to?
When I was with the CAW job selection went by your date of hire. Which job you got and rate of pay had nothing to do with your work ethic, only how long you had worked there.
I could have the dirtiest job, or even the job with the most responsibility (that I had no clue how to do) in no one else wanted to do it.
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July 30th 2009 at 2:16 PM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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In union shops most jobs are a bidding process, the person with the most Seniority and the right training asaully get's the job of choice.
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July 30th 2009 at 2:25 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 2:28 PM
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Quote originally posted by Rock
Please.......Maybe screwed up mgmt has something to do with companies going under or maybe it's the multi billions these ceo's get paid!dont give me this crap that union's dont work! I am a member of the CWA and the companies that have the CWA are making money hand over fist!
How about the Teamsters?
UPS is a huge staple and their employee's are paid union scale with all the bennies and guess what.......they make a ton of dough!!~!!!!!
How about the teamsters? One of the most corrup organizations in the country (right behind congress) when the US goberment has to come in and take control of a union (like they did from ol Jimmy Hoffa) you know its corrupt!! Hey Rock its kinda funny that thousands of GM and Chystler employees are losing their jobs yet you don't hear of any cutbacks or layoffs from UAW managment...that's odd!! The only thing a union can protect these days is....THE UNION!!
Speaking of UPS Rock, I have a funny story for ya, a few years ago I delivered a load to the UPS terminal in Philedelphia, while I was getting unloaded I was standing in the breakroom reading some stuff on the bulletin board, there was a note from the union to its members urging them to "convince" the non-union dock workers into joining their union (it gave all the non-union members names, department, ect) the union was upset that the NON-UNION workers had managed to negotiate a BETTER pay/benefit package than what the UNION employees had!! The union somehow thought that this was unfair because the non-unions workers weren't paying their "fair share" in union dues!! I stood there reading that and wondered to myself "why would anyone PAY the union to make LESS to make less money!!
Quote originally posted by Rock
In union shops most jobs are a bidding process, the person with the most Seniority and the right training asaully get's the job of choice.
Meaning its usually the most worthless person in the plant gets the job because he's been there longer and been more worthless than those who've only been worthless for a little while!! 
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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July 30th 2009 at 2:40 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 2:42 PM
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Rock
raise a little hell
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1195 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 14th 2006
Location: St.Paul Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2005 700xcsp
2008-2009 Miles: 571
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Quote originally posted by ultrastud
Quote originally posted by Rock
Please.......Maybe screwed up mgmt has something to do with companies going under or maybe it's the multi billions these ceo's get paid!dont give me this crap that union's dont work! I am a member of the CWA and the companies that have the CWA are making money hand over fist!
How about the Teamsters?
UPS is a huge staple and their employee's are paid union scale with all the bennies and guess what.......they make a ton of dough!!~!!!!!
How about the teamsters? One of the most corrup organizations in the country (right behind congress) when the US goberment has to come in and take control of a union (like they did from ol Jimmy Hoffa) you know its corrupt!! Hey Rock its kinda funny that thousands of GM and Chystler employees are losing their jobs yet you don't hear of any cutbacks or layoffs from UAW managment...that's odd!! The only thing a union can protect these days is....THE UNION!!
Speaking of UPS Rock, I have a funny story for ya, a few years ago I delivered a load to the UPS terminal in Philedelphia, while I was getting unloaded I was standing in the breakroom reading some stuff on the bulletin board, there was a note from the union to its members urging them to "convince" the non-union dock workers into joining their union (it gave all the non-union members names, department, ect) the union was upset that the NON-UNION workers had managed to negotiate a BETTER pay/benefit package than what the UNION employees had!! The union somehow thought that this was unfair because the non-unions workers weren't paying their "fair share" in union dues!! I stood there reading that and wondered to myself "why would anyone PAY the union to make LESS to make less money!!
Quote originally posted by Rock
In union shops most jobs are a bidding process, the person with the most Seniority and the right training asaully get's the job of choice.
Meaning its usually the most worthless person in the plant gets the job because he's been there longer and been more worthless than those who've only been worthless for a little while!!
This coming from an old fart who think's he can keep up with the young stud's.
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July 30th 2009 at 2:44 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 2:46 PM
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Correction...I'm an old STUD who thinks he can keep up with the young farts!! LMAO I see a Crown Royal vs. Captain Morgan royal rumble comin at haydays!! 
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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July 30th 2009 at 3:46 PM
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Festus33
SNO PROwler
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1285 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 25th 2006
Location: Mukwonago, Wi., USA
Current Sled: Eccentrica and Da Prowla
2008-2009 Miles: 647
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Matt
I saw that figure on CNN shortly after the bailout was put forward, but before it was voted on.
Let's Take All the Warning Label's Off,
and let Nature Sort it Out !!!
1998 A.C. EXT 600 Triple/Triple
1990 A.C. Prowler 440 SNO PROwler
1987 A.C. ElTigre 440
1994 A.C. Tigershark 640 Daytona
www.johnmaster.net (Snowmobile Traction Product's)
mpsalvage@msn.com ( Snowmobile Salvage and Part's)
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July 30th 2009 at 10:10 PM
[ Modified July 30th 2009 at 10:12 PM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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14007 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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^ Cnn has posted bull before and been called on the carpet for it. Until I see it in a union contract of the UAW, I can't believe it. The only thing I can see happening is a very long term skilled employee making 28 bucks an hour that gets hurt.. and instead of sending him home on disability, they make him sweep a floor for 2 months until he gets better and can get back to his normal job.
About teamsters.. we just got them as a union in our shop and our floor sweepers are not 20 whatever an hour.. I know that. We pay ONE of them and he is the lowest grade. I know who he is, he rides a public bus (many of them) 4 hrs each day and rents a trailer in a trailer park (can't afford a vehicle). The rest of it is contracted to a custodial service (that was recently cut to 1/2 time because of lack of employees (layoffs)).
RMK-KING said at his shop the floor sweeper makes over 20 an hour. That is very odd (around here anyways). I was a unionized worker once and had the job of sweeping floors for awhile.. I made 9 bucks an hr. Sometimes workers are paid a stupid amount for a stupid job because they can't keep someone in the position as the job sucks.. so they pay them more and are able to keep them. I can somewhat understand that in certain circumstances.
Our post office had a posting up about a job opening a few months ago. My town is 900 people with no stores or even a stop light. The post office job consisted of just working the counter selling stamps and selling postage for packages. The job was over 20 bucks an hour and no education was required and awesome bennys of course. Perhaps we should stop sending things in the mail.
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July 30th 2009 at 11:14 PM
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2SEWINGS
Average Member
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715 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2003
Location: Hopkins, Mn
Current Sled: 05 RS Rage
2008-2009 Miles: 1081
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Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
Quote originally posted by 2SEWINGS
Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt
^ Can't totally agree with you Ultra.. being a GM supplier I have to say we didn't get screwed and thanks to the automakers getting a government loan, 6 people in my family still have a roof over their heads.
Every company on this planet has flaws. I blame alot of it on the consumers that don't care that the profits from their toyota went to Japan and chances are most of their parts came from there also (since the majority of toyotas are less than 50% domestic parts content).
Things are starting to look up so lets hope for a better and brighter future for us all.
I'm kind of tossed in this matter since I work for a foreign car company and also own a Toyota. Profits to the manufacturer are one thing but what keeps people employed is another matter entirely.
I have worked for foreign carmakers since 1993, is that so bad? I don't think so! It has managed to keep myself and my wife to live comfortably for the last 16 years!
By the way, the Toyota I drive was produced here in the US of A, how many jobs does that support? Where the profits go in my opinion is irrelevant as to where the workforce to support our market comes from.
People need to look at things from a slightly different angle, foreign manufacturers do help keep people employed here in our homeland...
Your truck is included in one of the few I mentioned. Your truck (07 tundra (IIRC)) is 75% domestic content and assembled in the united states. That is decent, but unfortunately the profits go overseas.
To compare it.. I guess to compare it, in 2007 you could have got an F-150 that was 90% north american content and assembled in the united states and profits stay here.
I could go thru and compare domestic content for ford/gm/toyota but just looking at it is laughable who contributes the most to the domestic economy (list for 07, the year of your truck)
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT...A2007a.pdf
And for tacomas and corollas, they are only built in the same plant as GM's at NUMMI.. Until now.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/...plant.html
That relates to hogs post.. There is toyota pulling out of california so gm is not the only one up rooting some locations. 5,000 people loosing their jobs there. 5,000 may not sound like much but that is a HUGE number and the ripple affect will flow VERY far. Many more than 5,000 will lose their jobs (because of indirect labor relations).
Comparing how many americans are employed by foreign makers vs. domestic makers would be idiotic as domestics employ a crap ton more.
Interesting site here
http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org
I also compared a colorado to a tundra for ****s and giggles with their JPC rating and how they got the rating. Tundra got 32.. colorado got 78..
But back to business here, that first link I posted spells it out in black and white.
GM employs a crapton more people. Facts are facts.
I am glad you are still employed 2sewings! Regardless of our personal opinions on the matter!
For what its worth Matt, I have a Tacoma not a Tundra. I did not read the report but still I am proud as to what I own and where I work. Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one! The union debate is a whole other matter in my opinion....
The work force today is completely different than it was 30 years ago when the unions and the work force mentality changed my life entirely. I grew up in a union town back then and have no fond memories as to what they did for their workers other than shut that particular industry down to almost nothing.
If you happen to make it to Haydays this year I would be happy to discuss this person to person where I think a good natured debate could take place. That is what is all about, isn't it
It's all about the ride to get there, the destination doesn't matter!
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July 31st 2009 at 12:14 AM
[ Modified July 31st 2009 at 12:37 AM
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RMK-KING
The Fabricator Moderator
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9125 Posts
Group: Moderators
Member Since: October 3rd 2002
Location: Center and Roseglen, ND, USA
Current Sled: 09 RMK 700 & 06 IQr 600
2008-2009 Miles: 550
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Quote originally posted by uponone Which union do you belong to? IBEW Local 1593 Quote originally posted by Rock In union shops most jobs are a bidding process, the person with the most Seniority and the right training asaully get's the job of choice. Correct Quote originally posted by arcticcatmatt RMK-KING said at his shop the floor sweeper makes over 20 an hour. That is very odd (around here anyways). When you say floor sweeper im referring to Janitor,so they take out all the garbages,mop,sweep,clean toilets,sinks and whatever else. Still one of the highest paying janitor positions I have seen.
Current Line Up
-09 RMK Assault
-06 IQ R 600HO
-01 ProX 600
-95 XCR 600
Days get shorter,snow gets deeper,life gets better.
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