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Employement Advice
- what will my schooling bring me?
started by randall
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November 3rd 2009 at 5:39 PM
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randall
arctic cat fanatic!
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well, after a year of welding classes, i got my welding degree. i decided just recently now to go to school to get my 2 year degree for mechanical drafting. does anyone have any idea what the mixture of these two degree's will lead me to? what kind of companies to look out for? as a 20 year old i really could use the advice. thanks.
"Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."
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November 3rd 2009 at 7:40 PM
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TMAN
Advanced Member
TMAN -I'm not rude, you're insignificant.
Updated Last Saturday at 7:55 PM
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Where you goin to school at? I'm also going to school for mechanical drafting.
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November 3rd 2009 at 7:49 PM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 has to go through the snowmobile trailer....sleds will be north next weekend.
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welding degree I doubt will get you much other than a welding job. mechanical drafting and welding might get you some type of job working in the drafting department of a welding shop. I really don't know as I am just a laid of welder working in the concrete business.
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2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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November 3rd 2009 at 9:56 PM
[ Modified November 3rd 2009 at 10:01 PM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
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Well, just like xcr440 said, unless you get a job as a drafter in a welding shop, youll prob end up doing one or the other, at least in the short term. However, just having a broader education will make you a more valuable employee in either field. You wont be just a step in the process, youll be able to provide feedback to others form either side.
Speaking from experience, a drafter (or sometimes even an engineer) with no machining experience might make a drawing of a part that is impossible to make because he has no machining/mechanical experience. On the other hand, a machinist with no engineering knowledge might make a part that will cause problems down the road for whatever reason: part fails, assembly issues, or just overly complicated (engineers like to make things complicated). I am able to help design parts, then I make them, then I assemble them, then I test whatever assembly they are part of myself.
Because I have a diversified education, I consider myself a valuable employee. I catch a lot of mistakes that could be very costly if gone unnoticed.
Bottom line, furthering your education will always pay off. Instead of a 2 year degree in drafting, what about a 2 year degree in mechanical engineering, which will usually include several classes in mechanical drafting.
Good luck whatever you do.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
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November 3rd 2009 at 11:04 PM
[ Modified November 3rd 2009 at 11:11 PM
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Pharotek
Junior Member
Pharotek is getting tired of his green lawn! Let it snow already!
Updated Tuesday at 10:29 PM
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213 Posts 
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Quote originally posted by xcr440
welding degree I doubt will get you much other than a welding job. mechanical drafting and welding might get you some type of job working in the drafting department of a welding shop. I really don't know as I am just a laid of welder working in the concrete business.
This is not completely true. I went to school for Turf and Agriculture Management(Small Gas Engine and Medium Duty Diesel Tech). Now I sit behind a computer all day in a Dyno test cell at Corning Inc. testing Diesel Particulate Filters. You never really know where or what you might end up doing in life. The only time I pick up a wrench is to remove/put on a different filter. Many people here have 2/4 year degrees as Auto Tech and Diesel Tech. One guy I work with as a 4 year degree from some bike school he went to in Florida. So you never know what your education can lead to.
98 Indy 500-Wife's
01 XCsp 600 edgex-current
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95 Indy 440 50yrs anniversary-sold(miss this sled)
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69 Massey Ferguson Ski Whiz 440-sold(got for bday when i was 14)
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November 4th 2009 at 6:19 AM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by Pharotek
Quote originally posted by xcr440
welding degree I doubt will get you much other than a welding job. mechanical drafting and welding might get you some type of job working in the drafting department of a welding shop. I really don't know as I am just a laid of welder working in the concrete business.
This is not completely true. I went to school for Turf and Agriculture Management(Small Gas Engine and Medium Duty Diesel Tech). Now I sit behind a computer all day in a Dyno test cell at Corning Inc. testing Diesel Particulate Filters. You never really know where or what you might end up doing in life. The only time I pick up a wrench is to remove/put on a different filter. Many people here have 2/4 year degrees as Auto Tech and Diesel Tech. One guy I work with as a 4 year degree from some bike school he went to in Florida. So you never know what your education can lead to.
Thats very true, and also a good point. I guess my degree has taken me into a field I never thought I would be in. Ive built several implantable biomedical devices for the R+D company I work for. Never thought I would be in the biomedical field building blood pumps that actually get implanted into something thats still alive.
I guess I said that becuase welding is for the most part a specialized and specific skill set. But like Pharotek said, you never know where your degree will take you.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 9:16 AM
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srx_600
www.snowmobilehotspots.com
srx_600 if its gonna be this warm i would rather have it be summer...
Updated Thursday at 8:28 PM
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2295 Posts
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What im starting to realize in my field is that you need 5 years experience for most jobs, tough to get experience when you cant get a job. Ive pretty much accepted the fact the first job im gonna have is gonna be like a $9/hour job or some sort of internship.
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November 4th 2009 at 9:30 AM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
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Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by srx_600
What im starting to realize in my field is that you need 5 years experience for most jobs, tough to get experience when you cant get a job. Ive pretty much accepted the fact the first job im gonna have is gonna be like a $9/hour job or some sort of internship.
$9/hr?!?!  Thats rough man. What field is it that youre in? I would think you should be able to do better then that in ANY field. Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but that just seems really low for having any type of higher education.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 9:52 AM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 9:53 AM
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srx_600
www.snowmobilehotspots.com
srx_600 if its gonna be this warm i would rather have it be summer...
Updated Thursday at 8:28 PM
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2295 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: April 29th 2007
Location: South Dakota, USA
Current Sled: 2003 RMK 700 151
2008-2009 Miles: 1200
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I will have a degree in Network Administration. No one wants to hire some 21 year old kid out of a 2 year tech school to work on thousands of dollars of equipment. Quote originally posted by Luke Quote originally posted by srx_600 What im starting to realize in my field is that you need 5 years experience for most jobs, tough to get experience when you cant get a job. Ive pretty much accepted the fact the first job im gonna have is gonna be like a $9/hour job or some sort of internship. $9/hr?!?! Thats rough man. What field is it that youre in? I would think you should be able to do better then that in ANY field. Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but that just seems really low for having any type of higher education.
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November 4th 2009 at 10:10 AM
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RMK-Queen
Starting Member
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48 Posts
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Its a good idea at any rate to get an AA degree. Just having a degree can help you get ahead in certain jobs. A family friend was repeatedly overlooked for a promotion because he didn't have a degree. They didnt even care what it was in. He got a University Studies degree and was promoted instantly. That paper means alot.
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November 4th 2009 at 10:11 AM
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randall
arctic cat fanatic!
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554 Posts
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Quote originally posted by TMAN
Where you goin to school at? I'm also going to school for mechanical drafting.
i am going to school at SE Tech in winona, mn.
also, i was hoping that it would increase my chances with a company like, for example, badger eq. here in winona. they are always looking for welders (says my neighbor that works there) and it would be nice if having the mechanical drafting under my belt would help me work my way up. idk exactly what anything would entail.
i initially came down to winona to go to winona state university for envirnmental science. i decided to go to the tech school down here instead, but i stayed in the dorm room i had reserved for going to WSU. but i think it is safe to say that we are all going to have a hard time finding jobs right now, regardless of field, etc.
some of these stories im hearing on this thread are pretty cool. you know, how strange of places you can end up at. you never really know what sort of curveballs life will throw, i guess you just have to roll with the punches and keep working hard!
oh and LUKE- i will have to look into that 2 yr degree in mechanical engineering, if it is essentially very similar, then i will defenitly have to head your advice. there is a tech school in lacrosse, wis that is close in proximity to me (i live in DT Winona, MN as of right now) that i will have to check into, because i dont believe i have heard of the tech school here in winona having that program.
"Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."
1 john 3:18
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November 4th 2009 at 11:20 AM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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The mechanical degree itself wont be that similar to the drafting degree, but the drafting classes you would prob take in a mechanical program would be similar, if not the same as the courses in the drafting program. Youll def be a lot farther ahead with a mechanical engineering degree. I know guys that the Associates in Mech and then it was only a few more classes on top of that to get certified as a drafter too.
Good luck
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 6th 2009 at 7:11 PM
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Yesterday at 12:16 PM
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14005 Posts 
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^ I just read this thread and I have some worth reading feedback. First I have to say (I usually agree with Luke) that I don't agree with Luke. Telling him he will be better of with a Mechanical Engineering 2 year degree over a Drafting 2 year degree is your opinion and preference.
I was a welder/grinder for almost 5 years. I got sick of it and the low pay and went to college for Tool and Die Drafting and Design with a major in electro mechanical. While I was there, I became a certified draftsmen. I now work in the field designing machines, tooling, and fixures. I am now also being utilized to design product (variable cam timing for engines).
My title is Designer. I work with several designers and mechanical engineers that have 2 and 4 year mechanical engineering degrees. None of them can detail a part or run a cad program. They all say that they had a few classes on it but it was not their major and they all went to different schools.
Of course as you know, not all schools are the same. My school was one of the top in the country for its Drafting program and that is not just me saying it. We all participated in skills USA Vica competitions and I even placed 2nd in the state. The kid that placed 1st was in my class and I was much better than him. The judges even said it, they said I lost because I had a slight attitude with them in one of the phases over their judging (they said the kid was allowed to fudge a part and I threw a fit because that is not allowed in industry).
My degree was a 2 year program. I was in class from 7am - 3:30pm every day 5 days a week non stop. 72 credit hours 30 mins away from my dorms. I took no english or other bullcrap classes that designers don't need. Got to love AOS degrees. They are made to make you the best at what you are in school for and get you a job. We had 100 percent job placement, every single person had a job at graduation. Bad part.. the credits don't usually transfer well as they are not designed to. Look at the course layout here http://www.alfredstate.edu/academics/pro...d-drafting
So what I am saying is getting a "Drafting" degree is much more than a drafting degree depending on what school you go to.
Feel free to ask any questions you would like. I have been doing it awhile.
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November 6th 2009 at 7:38 PM
[ Modified November 6th 2009 at 7:40 PM
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jeremybeaner
Junior Member
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165 Posts
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Well ill tell you all right now coming from someone who is actually doing it, there is not such thing as a 2 year mechanical engineering degree, you need at least 3-4 years to be and engineer period. Now you can be an enineering technician which is a 2 year degree, get yourself an alright salary starting out as well, you wont be making the designs but you will be making sure the contractor is following those plans that the original engineer made. Its like a nurse to a doctor, your not the guy cutting the patient open your the guy handing him the scalpol(sp), thats what im doing anyway, plus you can work as an engineering tech for a couple years, get the experience and go back to school for two more years to get your engineering degree, plus interns for engineering techs arent bad, and the job is in demand just as much as an engineer. This is all just saying if you dont want to go to school for 4 more years.
1996 Arctic cat 580 EXT Powder Special
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November 6th 2009 at 9:30 PM
[ Modified November 6th 2009 at 9:36 PM
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07Phazer
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336 Posts
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^^^ That's about what I was going to say. What degree you get, and what level of schooling you get, depends on how far you want to advance in your career. A 2 year technical degree will get you farther than having no degree at all, but you will generally hit your advancement ceiling relatively quickly with a 2 year degree.
Like jeremybeaner said, there really isn't such a thing as a 2 year mechanical engineering degree. Even a mechanical engineering technology degree (MET) is a 4 year program. Its darn near impossible to obtain a 2 year technical degree, take a couple of more classes, and get a bachelors in mechanical engineering. I have a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering. It is not an easy degree to get, and rarely, if ever, are you able to transfer credits from another program into an accredited engineering school. If you want a full bachelors degree in engineering, do it in one shot. If you split it up, you run a big risk of the credits not transferring. If you are lucky enough to get the credits to transfer, you'll be way behind. The first 2 years are easy. The last 2 years of courses continually build and build on each other. If you get lost, or are rusty, you will be left in the dust in the blink of an eye.
And like ACM said, the school matters. BIG time. For an engineering degree to be worth anything, the engineering school and program needs to be accredited. This means that the schools program is recognized throughout the industry as meeting the requirements that all the other accredited engineering programs meet. This is a huge deal to engineering schools, and they spend quite a bit of money to keep their accreditation's. It matters a lot on your resume as well. This also means that the programs at accredited schools are much more difficult and lengthy. Yes, my degree included a lot of BS and fluff courses in the first 2 years, but so did everyone else's equivalent 4 year degree. They're supposed to make you a more well rounded employee....
That being said, I get far more enjoyment out of doing the technical side of the engineering world, than the actual "engineering" stuff. I probably could have gotten away with getting a 2 year degree, but I wanted the almost unlimited advancement and placement opportunities that came with a 4 year mechanical engineering degree.
To the OP, do NOT discredit spending time on the floor. That is a valuable skill that can get you ahead of other candidates when you go for higher positions. There are always going to be "book smart" people in the engineering world; however, "book smart" and "street smart" is a rarity. I spent 8 years as a fabricator before I got my degree and moved on. I've leveraged that fabrication experience to get me ahead of the game and land me a job. If an employer knows that you aren't afraid to be on the floor, and won't be a danger to yourself while you're out there, that is a big plus.
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November 6th 2009 at 10:44 PM
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jeremybeaner
Junior Member
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165 Posts
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Member Since: December 20th 2008
Location: Bismarck, ND, USA
Current Sled: 96' 580 powder special
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Quote originally posted by 07Phazer
^^^ That's about what I was going to say. What degree you get, and what level of schooling you get, depends on how far you want to advance in your career. A 2 year technical degree will get you farther than having no degree at all, but you will generally hit your advancement ceiling relatively quickly with a 2 year degree.
Like jeremybeaner said, there really isn't such a thing as a 2 year mechanical engineering degree. Even a mechanical engineering technology degree (MET) is a 4 year program. Its darn near impossible to obtain a 2 year technical degree, take a couple of more classes, and get a bachelors in mechanical engineering. I have a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering. It is not an easy degree to get, and rarely, if ever, are you able to transfer credits from another program into an accredited engineering school. If you want a full bachelors degree in engineering, do it in one shot. If you split it up, you run a big risk of the credits not transferring. If you are lucky enough to get the credits to transfer, you'll be way behind. The first 2 years are easy. The last 2 years of courses continually build and build on each other. If you get lost, or are rusty, you will be left in the dust in the blink of an eye.
And like ACM said, the school matters. BIG time. For an engineering degree to be worth anything, the engineering school and program needs to be accredited. This means that the schools program is recognized throughout the industry as meeting the requirements that all the other accredited engineering programs meet. This is a huge deal to engineering schools, and they spend quite a bit of money to keep their accreditation's. It matters a lot on your resume as well. This also means that the programs at accredited schools are much more difficult and lengthy. Yes, my degree included a lot of BS and fluff courses in the first 2 years, but so did everyone else's equivalent 4 year degree. They're supposed to make you a more well rounded employee....
That being said, I get far more enjoyment out of doing the technical side of the engineering world, than the actual "engineering" stuff. I probably could have gotten away with getting a 2 year degree, but I wanted the almost unlimited advancement and placement opportunities that came with a 4 year mechanical engineering degree.
To the OP, do NOT discredit spending time on the floor. That is a valuable skill that can get you ahead of other candidates when you go for higher positions. There are always going to be "book smart" people in the engineering world; however, "book smart" and "street smart" is a rarity. I spent 8 years as a fabricator before I got my degree and moved on. I've leveraged that fabrication experience to get me ahead of the game and land me a job. If an employer knows that you aren't afraid to be on the floor, and won't be a danger to yourself while you're out there, that is a big plus.
^^^^very true, an employer could look at two fresh college grads on with a 4.0 that has never picked up a hammer in his life and the other with a 2.8 that has worked his waythrough college working construction, he is going to pick the construction worker, not because of his grades but because his knowledge in the field. being a welder is a good trait if you plan to engineer something pertaining to welding because you know the ins and outs
1996 Arctic cat 580 EXT Powder Special
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November 7th 2009 at 6:41 AM
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EMTP579
Trail Medic
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365 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 10th 2008
Location: Vestal, NY, USA
Current Sled: 2009 Yamaha Apex
2008-2009 Miles: 1600
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This is a very interesting debate and I think everyone has offered valuable perspectives that will offer randall some good things to think about. To me, the most important thing is to find a field that is in demand that you want to get out of bed in the morning to go do. That desire to go above and beyond in whatever you are doing is going to be what differentiates you from everyone else.
I am a Human Resources guy by trade, so I deal with this stuff alot. There are times where I see people who went a got a degree because everyone told them it was good for them, only to find out that they hated doing the work. If they had been paying attention more to what they loved, they might have been a tech vs. an engineer. What we find is that the best techs are more valuable in many cases than average or below average engineers. From a security standpoint, the below average engineers will usually get laid off before the best techs.
The other thing to consider is that you don't have to get it all solved now. Go and get a degree in something that motivates you, and then you can always go back later. We see that in many fields where people get a degree, go to work, then go back to school part time. It works great for alot of people, especially since your interests will change once you are full time in the workforce.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the work world has changed. Lifetime careers are going to be much less common than they used to be. Current predictions are that we will change our type of career 4 times during our work career.
So, I think you are doing the right thing - asking some questions to get a bunch of different viewpoints. Whatever you do, I suggest you get an "official degree" because the paper is important and it is also important to have a degree that can be transferred when you want to advance your education in the future.
Ride safe and sober! Make every ride a round trip.
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November 7th 2009 at 9:56 AM
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randall
arctic cat fanatic!
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554 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 5th 2007
Location: winona, mn, USA
Current Sled: 04 sabercat 600
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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that is what i was thinking as far as the existence of a 2 yr mechanical engineering degree. and like what was stated above, i saw that the average person of my generation (20 yr old) will have 12 jobs before they retire (or if we can retire) so it will be nice to have welding under my belt as well. i think we can all say that the more schooling the better. thank you guys SO much for all this advice, i have taken note of ALL of it!
alex
"Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."
1 john 3:18
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