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Engine break in
- I think I goofed up big on my part
started by Empire087
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November 4th 2009 at 10:16 AM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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Ok so when I rebuilt my zl I used amsoil and the citgo syn blend to break it in. Now I only get 95 comp on both cylinders when cold. I was just wondering would it still break in if I where to use mineral oil, maybe raise my compression above 105? Or would I need to replace my rings to get better compression? If you guys have any questions let me know, because I may not have included enough details.
Thanks for your help
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 10:51 AM
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XLT96rider
Other sports play once a week, but this sport is with us every day.
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937 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: January 7th 2009
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 1996 Polaris XLT Special
2008-2009 Miles: 1000+
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I think 95 is a little low. Should be 120-130?? Not sure for your engine though. I've heard to never use a synthetic oil for break-in...somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
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November 4th 2009 at 10:58 AM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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I just found that out this summer, it's not like it runs bad(it actually runs great) but I know it has low compression.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 11:19 AM
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sledfreak139
Sled Junky
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367 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 12th 2009
Location: Derry, NH, USA
Current Sled: 05 Polaris Switchback 600
2008-2009 Miles: 400
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Yea, compression is very low. Did you check the compression before you ran it?
How did the cylinders look when you replaced the pistons?
2005 Polaris Switchback 600: SlyDog PowderHound Ski's, SLP Air Box Mod, V-Force 3 Reeds, 144" track fully studded, Powermadd Pivot Riser and 4" block, Polaris Hand guards,
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November 4th 2009 at 11:22 AM
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sledcrusher
Junior Member
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371 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 10th 2009
Location: Maine, USA
Current Sled: 2003 Rev 600
2008-2009 Miles: 1400
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I honestly dont think it matters what oil you use for break in. And yes, you want OVER 120 psi. I always rebuild if it goes under 110-115 in either cylinder. Maybe you used an aftermarket ring, or put something in that wasn't supposed to be in? You didnt reuse pistons or rings did you? Sometimes your piston can get wear spots which allow the ring to set wrong, and lets air through. I've been told you have to hold it WOT when you check compression ( which I rarely do anyways )
Proud Supporter of Snowmobilers.com
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November 4th 2009 at 11:26 AM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Youre supposed to use mineral oil to break in the rings. Helps them wear into the cylinders better.
Couple questions:
1: How are you checking the compression? Type of tester, are you holding the throttle open when you pull it over are you pulling it over till the needle stops going up?
2: How long have you run the motor so far? Have you ridden it since the rebuild, or just run it on a stand?
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 1:16 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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I used brand new rings and pistons, one cylinder got re-cored/re-plated the other was good so we took a hone to it. I'm not sure how to explain the tester. I put close to 500 miles on it last year. I pull 5 times off the throttle and 5 tiimes wot.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 1:41 PM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by Empire087
I used brand new rings and pistons, one cylinder got re-cored/re-plated the other was good so we took a hone to it. I'm not sure how to explain the tester. I put close to 500 miles on it last year. I pull 5 times off the throttle and 5 tiimes wot.
IS it the kind of tester that threads into the plug hole or does it have a rubber nipple that you just jam in the hole and hold it there? The thread in kind is usually better. If you can, get your hands on another tester just to compare.
I think worst case scenario is new rings, new gaskets, and a re-hone. $50 or so.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 1:57 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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It's a thread in one, it's older than I am. I'm gonna try and find another one to try. I'm just gonna run 2 gallons mineral oil through it and see if it makes a difference. I appreciate the help luke.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 2:05 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 2:06 PM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by Empire087
It's a thread in one, it's older than I am. I'm gonna try and find another one to try. I'm just gonna run 2 gallons mineral oil through it and see if it makes a difference. I appreciate the help luke.
Ok, an old tester could easily be off by 20 psi, so you might actually bo ok. It wont hurt to try the mineral oil, but I think its too late for that.
Just curious, is it hard to get it started? A lot of times if compression is less than 100 engines will be tough to get started. But some will run and start forever just fine with sub-100 psi compression. If its easy to start this could be an indicator that your tester is bad.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 2:27 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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Runs like a champ, first pull 99% of the time even when cold. I just tested my jag that had 145 psi compression and it only had 112. Im starting to think that the tester has gone bad.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 3:46 PM
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Ugly_old_Poo_kid
techno-bumpkin
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1065 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: March 18th 2007
Location: Walworth, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 Edge & Frankenstorm II
2008-2009 Miles: 165
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Test the compression cold and again hot..
If it changes drastically, there's a motor problem.
If it doesn't change much, it's the tester.
95 - Storm 800 - Modded - AKA: FrankenStorm - Totalled near 100mph at Tug Hill!
96 - XLT/SP with Storm 800 trip/trip and now EFI - FrankenStorm II lives...
95 - RXL -- Sale Pending --
05 - Edge 800 long track - Stayin' stock for now..
---------------------------------------------
It made me more compassionate, more empathetic, more nurturing...
I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN MY OWN WORST NIGHTMARE!!!
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November 4th 2009 at 4:16 PM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 has to go through the snowmobile trailer....sleds will be north next weekend.
Updated Thursday at 1:45 PM
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12570 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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Quote originally posted by Luke
Youre supposed to use mineral oil to break in the rings.
how many people do? Most if not all new sleds come with syn oil. Very few people will drain their oils out just the break in with petro oil.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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November 4th 2009 at 4:29 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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Quote originally posted by Ugly_old_Poo_kid
Test the compression cold and again hot..
If it changes drastically, there's a motor problem.
If it doesn't change much, it's the tester.
It doesn't change much, maybe to 100-102
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 4:39 PM
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triplefever
Junior Member
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104 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 20th 2009
Location: saginaw, michigan
Current Sled: 1999 zr600 snopro
2008-2009 Miles: 3049
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sounds like you need new rings and a rehone to getter right...also make sure you didnt put the rings in upside down its inpossable to do on some pistons and make sure you put the new pistons in in the right direction(with the arrow facing the exaust port)
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November 4th 2009 at 4:54 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 4:56 PM
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Ugly_old_Poo_kid
techno-bumpkin
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1065 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 18th 2007
Location: Walworth, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 Edge & Frankenstorm II
2008-2009 Miles: 165
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Try another tester, I think your tester is reading low.
The ruber hoses on them get old, and start expanding. If the hose expands, it absorbs some of the compression.
95 - Storm 800 - Modded - AKA: FrankenStorm - Totalled near 100mph at Tug Hill!
96 - XLT/SP with Storm 800 trip/trip and now EFI - FrankenStorm II lives...
95 - RXL -- Sale Pending --
05 - Edge 800 long track - Stayin' stock for now..
---------------------------------------------
It made me more compassionate, more empathetic, more nurturing...
I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN MY OWN WORST NIGHTMARE!!!
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November 4th 2009 at 4:58 PM
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INDY400MOD
Full Throttle
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123 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 3rd 2008
Location: East Parsonsfield, Maine, USA
Current Sled: 2001 XC 500
2008-2009 Miles: 700
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Quote originally posted by Ugly_old_Poo_kid
Try another tester, I think your tester is reading low.
The ruber hoses on them get old, and start expanding. If the hose expands, it absorbs some of the compression.
It doesn't matter what kind of oil you use to break it in but i would stick to one kind of oil and not three run the mineral oiul to break it in but after i would run amsoil
2001 XC 500
4" powermadd bar risers
Sno-stuff rumble pack
96 woody's picks
powermadd handguards
red windshield
black headlight cover
1993 Chevy 1500 2wd V6 Dual Exhaust, with some other goodies but i'll never tell, It will give your V8's a run.
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November 4th 2009 at 5:26 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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I'm gonna use the rest of the oil in my sled then put my syn blend back in. I think the tester is probably off 15 or so. It's ran to nicely to be having problems. I put the pistons in right, the rings are in right. If my compression gets lower though I'm definetly gonna put new rings on and get it honed.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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November 4th 2009 at 5:31 PM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 has to go through the snowmobile trailer....sleds will be north next weekend.
Updated Thursday at 1:45 PM
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12570 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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Quote originally posted by INDY400MOD
Quote originally posted by Ugly_old_Poo_kid
Try another tester, I think your tester is reading low.
The ruber hoses on them get old, and start expanding. If the hose expands, it absorbs some of the compression.
It doesn't matter what kind of oil you use to break it in but i would stick to one kind of oil and not three run the mineral oiul to break it in but after i would run amsoil
amsoil is not going to change a thing. Run what you you like and can get on the trail.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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November 4th 2009 at 6:23 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 6:28 PM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by xcr440
Quote originally posted by Luke
Youre supposed to use mineral oil to break in the rings.
how many people do? Most if not all new sleds come with syn oil. Very few people will drain their oils out just the break in with petro oil.
With a new sled I guess that would be foolish, you're right. Maybe mineral oil vs. synthetic will only result in a difference of a few psi. Also, the newer sleds are built to different specs, with different tools, and better materials than the engines that most of us are rebuilding. Maybe the mineral oil first method doesnt apply anymore.
Ive been using the mineral oil breakin method for several years myself, its what Ive been taught, and the theory makes sense.
Im sure that by itself wont cause a low compression issue, but it could very well contribute to it. And it certainly wont hurt to run a quart or two of mineral oil through it during break in, so you have nothing to lose. If anyhting, it will only help.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 6:31 PM
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zecow224
Junior Member
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219 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 21st 2009
Location: appleton, wisconsin, USA
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i think its got to be the tester. if the jag with 145 compression normaly and it only has 112, then i think it might be the tester.
Kirby is my idol
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November 4th 2009 at 6:59 PM
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barney
Junior Member
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205 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 23rd 2008
Current Sled: 2004 Arctic Cat F7
2008-2009 Miles: 2153
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Holding it wide open when pulling does not affect how the compression checker will read.
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November 4th 2009 at 7:01 PM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 has to go through the snowmobile trailer....sleds will be north next weekend.
Updated Thursday at 1:45 PM
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12570 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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yes it does, more air-less air. I've seen it done many time difference is usually 10-20 psi.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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November 4th 2009 at 7:45 PM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NY, USA
Current Sled: 1998 XC 700
2008-2009 Miles: 410
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Quote originally posted by xcr440
yes it does, more air-less air. I've seen it done many time difference is usually 10-20 psi.
+1 def makes a differnce
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 4th 2009 at 7:46 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 8:02 PM
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Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
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235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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I think I'm gonna run 2 quarts of mineral oil through my sled, just to see if it helps at all. There's a 99% chance that my tester is messed up.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
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