|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
Difference between Champion and NGK plugs
started by Craig_Polaris
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
Craig_Polaris
Junior Member
|
147 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: November 11th 2008
Location: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Current Sled: 2002 Edge X 800
|
|
|
|
| |
What are the difference besides price in the plugs. I know some sleds call for champions and others for NGK. I've alwasy ran the BR9ES plugs. Is the gapping just different or what?
2002 Edge x 800; Recently swallowed a valve so, New wiseco pistons, rings, pins, circlips, renikisil cylinders, and updated lower end bearings.
- Slp single Pipe and Can
- Vforce3 Reeds
- Slp air horn and gutted box
- 140/310 Slp primary spring
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:29 PM
|
|
| |
|
Empire087
Dude wheres the snow?
|
236 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 19th 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Michigan
Current Sled: 2002 ZL 500
2008-2009 Miles: 475
|
|
|
|
| |
different quality is what I've always been told.
02 ZL 500(apv)
91 jag afs 440
"if it snowed in the summer, I'd ride!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:32 PM
|
|
| |
|
POLARISDOMINATOR
ride to live live to ride
POLARISDOMINATOR relationship issues!!! it wont matter when thers snow on the gorund and im not home where she can find me!
Updated Last Monday at 11:13 PM
|
137 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 17th 2009
Location: marinette, wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 95' Polaris Indy XCR 600
|
|
|
|
| |
This post is considered "no good" by the community with a rating of -3. View it anyways?
ngk is a higher quality and last longer
95 xcr 600 trip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:36 PM
|
|
| |
|
xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over 4 hours ago
|
12582 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
|
|
|
|
| |
no differnce. I have used them all. ngk's don't last any longer than champs.
Biggest thing is who the manufactors got the better deal when buying millions of them.
In the liberty engines you should be using a BPR not a BR plug.
Biggest difference is between the ears. No real differnce on my drag strip testing.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:37 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 1:40 PM
]
|
|
| |
|
03Pro-X700
Senior Member
03Pro-X700 wants to get rid of my cdi, tach, wiring harness, and old cover. PM if interested.
Updated Last Sunday at 11:26 PM
|
2414 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 13th 2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 2003 Pro-X 700 144"
2008-2009 Miles: 860
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by POLARISDOMINATOR ngk is a higher quality and last longer says who? do you have any proof? I have used both plugs in my sleds (depending on what my engine calls for) and have not had a problem with either. To say one is better than the other while going off absolutely nothing but what you (not to point you out dominator thats a general context) use is a little absurd. In general sled engines call for your standard copper plug and the engineers, when designing a motor, will design it to run on a specific spark plug. Polaris liberty motors were designed to run with champion plugs while the old fujis were NGK. Either will be fine, just use whatever your sled calls for.
2003 pro-x 700;
TracksUSA 144" tip-up rail extensions
1.25 camoplast predator /120 1.40' extreme max SS studs
VanAmburg tunnel extension
SLP Powder-Pro skis, Powder-Coated suspension
Holtzman tempaflow-420 main jets
10-64g weights w/ round almond spring
24/42 gearing, gutted airbox, PERC, torque arm
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:39 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 1:43 PM
]
|
|
| |
|
zxkid
not really a kid anymore :(
|
493 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 29th 2008
Location: N.Adams, MA, USA
Current Sled: 2004 F7 SnoPro EFI
2008-2009 Miles: 1312
|
|
|
|
| |
just my useless 2 cents worth, but we've got a Factory Polaris Race support & team here in town (Southside) and they only use and recommend the Champion plugs in the Liberty engines. They tell me that the NGK will work fine and the average guy won't notice the difference, but he also said NGK doesn't make a plug that is an exact match to the champion. This was all told to my brother when he bought his '02 Edge X 800
"To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid"
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 1:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
Craig_Polaris
Junior Member
|
147 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 11th 2008
Location: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Current Sled: 2002 Edge X 800
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by xcr440
no differnce. I have used them all. ngk's don't last any longer than champs.
Biggest thing is who the manufactors got the better deal when buying millions of them.
In the liberty engines you should be using a BPR not a BR plug.
Biggest difference is between the ears. No real differnce on my drag strip testing.
Whats the difference between the BR and the BPR
2002 Edge x 800; Recently swallowed a valve so, New wiseco pistons, rings, pins, circlips, renikisil cylinders, and updated lower end bearings.
- Slp single Pipe and Can
- Vforce3 Reeds
- Slp air horn and gutted box
- 140/310 Slp primary spring
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 2:02 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over 4 hours ago
|
12582 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
|
|
|
|
| |
projected tip.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 4:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
ClassicCat76
Vintage Sledhead
ClassicCat76 Sled day!
Updated Yesterday at 2:35 PM
|
1391 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: June 2nd 2008
Location: Jordan, Minnesota, USA
Current Sled: '76 Arctic Cat Pantera
2008-2009 Miles: 450
|
|
|
|
| |
I run both NGK and Champion in my toys, performancewise, no difference really. I do believe that NGks are a little pricier?
'76 Pantera 5000 F/C Conversion
MODS to come! Newer sled first!
Dad's Sled: '94 580 EXT dropped two teeth
Old doesn't necessarily mean slow!!
Do what you can with what you got.
Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 4:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Hutch_XLT
Weekend Warrior
|
133 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2004
Location: Lake County, Illinois, USA
Current Sled: 1995 Polaris XLT
2008-2009 Miles: 200
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by Craig_Polaris
What are the difference besides price in the plugs. I know some sleds call for champions and others for NGK. I've alwasy ran the BR9ES plugs. Is the gapping just different or what?
Your sled will more than likely run fine on either brand, as long as it's cross referenced correctly. My sled calls for the Champion plugs, and I know the cross reference for Champion rn3c is the Ngk br8es. but to my experience the champion rn3c is actually in between a br8es and a br9es in heat range. My sled has always ran the best on the champions. good luck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 8:51 PM
|
|
| |
|
FanaticEdgeX
Average Member
|
956 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: September 1st 2005
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
2008-2009 Miles: 300
|
|
|
|
| |
Weren't the Champion plugs specific to the Liberty motor to also burn in two heat ranges because you can turn the key on premium and it advances the timing? When its on premium does it advance the timing through the entire RPM range? I remember a long time ago someone on here said it only advances the timing after 7000RPM. In any case, all I know is it costs me about $12 for two spark plugs.
Scott
EPI PRO clutch kit, dropped one tooth on top gear,VForce 3 reeds, SLP Airhorn Kit, gutted air box, SLP 2" Flowrites, MBRP Trail can, 144 1" studs, Trail Blazer 6" carbides, Polaris security system, Sportech 3" articulating bar riser, Sportech flat black handgaurds, yellow skid plate, silverstar headlights, shock socks, custom aluminum windshield, flat black headlight cover, custom exhaust cover, and there are blue lights under the hood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 9:18 PM
|
|
| |
|
sledcrusher
Junior Member
|
379 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 10th 2009
Location: Maine, USA
Current Sled: 2003 Rev 600
2008-2009 Miles: 1400
|
|
|
|
| |
My fusion ran like crap on BR9ES. I actually had to run some weird champion plug.
Proud Supporter of Snowmobilers.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 9:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
dtmmil
Senior Member
|
3182 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 27th 2007
Location: Hawley, MN, USA
Current Sled: 99 xc700
|
|
|
|
| |
I personally have had better luck with the champs in my sled and my Japanese motorcycle, go figure. And $12 for a pair of plugs, holy cow! where did you get them, around here they are usually less than about $2 a plug.
Clutched
Jetted, boyesen reed petals, boost bottle, 98xc carbs slides, 1371 needles, gutted air box
Homeade 7 1/2" riser
Homeade suspension drop brackets
shortened and blackened windshield
powermadd handguards
144 conversion, tracks usa extensions, custom tunnel extension and rear bumper, IQ flap, 1.25" track
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 9:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
FanaticEdgeX
Average Member
|
956 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 1st 2005
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
2008-2009 Miles: 300
|
|
|
|
| |
I haven't bought plugs in a couple of years since I didn't have much time or money because of school but I have to buy some soon. A couple of dollars sounds better. When the rang me up at my polaris dealer I was in a state of, "WTF..seriously???"
Scott
EPI PRO clutch kit, dropped one tooth on top gear,VForce 3 reeds, SLP Airhorn Kit, gutted air box, SLP 2" Flowrites, MBRP Trail can, 144 1" studs, Trail Blazer 6" carbides, Polaris security system, Sportech 3" articulating bar riser, Sportech flat black handgaurds, yellow skid plate, silverstar headlights, shock socks, custom aluminum windshield, flat black headlight cover, custom exhaust cover, and there are blue lights under the hood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 9:31 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 9:32 PM
]
|
|
| |
|
|
xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over 4 hours ago
|
12582 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by sledcrusher
My fusion ran like crap on BR9ES. I actually had to run some weird champion plug.
because you were using a non projected tip plug. champions should have been rn57ycc. Quote originally posted by FanaticEdgeX
Weren't the Champion plugs specific to the Liberty motor to also burn in two heat ranges because you can turn the key on premium and it advances the timing? When its on premium does it advance the timing through the entire RPM range? I remember a long time ago someone on here said it only advances the timing after 7000RPM. In any case, all I know is it costs me about $12 for two spark plugs.
yup at the dealer. I ordered mine at the local parts store less than $3 a peice.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 10:24 PM
|
|
| |
|
arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
|
14007 Posts 
Group: Moderators
Member Since: November 25th 2001
Location: Berkshire, NY, USA
Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
2008-2009 Miles: 450
|
|
|
|
| |
All I know is my buddy works at a mechanics shop and has seen 5 champion plugs with the tips worn off and gone when they shouldn't be. He has seen zero NGK problems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 4th 2009 at 10:35 PM
[ Modified November 4th 2009 at 10:45 PM
]
|
|
| |
|
|
| |
a search of the forum would have found this info
for newer (2000 +) liberty (domestic) engines in general
from snow tech mag.
Spark Plug Substitutions
Sunday, December 16th, 2007
According to Polaris, the NGK BPR9ES and NGK BPR9EVX spark plugs are acceptable substitutes for the Champion RN57YCC and RN57YC spark plugs now found on Polaris engines. The NGK plugs seem to have better sealing gaskets that reduce seepage anytime the plugs have been removed and reinstalled. The ”EV” is a premium fine-wire electrode version of the “ES”.
Which brings to light another question, what is the difference between the Champion RN57YC and RN57YCC? According to Polaris, the RN57YC is also an acceptable replacement for the more commonly used RN57YCC, and that engine damage will not result from this substitution. The CC plug has a longer copper ground electrode for higher heat conductivity, with more coverage (longer ground electrode) for increased plug life, and reduced RFI (radio frequency interference). The CC plug is the better choice, but you can run the single-C version if needed.
It is also generally accepted to substitute the new NGK BR9ECS spark plug for all BR9ES applications. The ECS plug is now common issue on most if not all Ski-Doo two-strokes. This plug has a conical shape base which can allow for a shorter center electrode and a shorter ground electrode in comparison to the old standard BR9ES. The benefits of this are a reduction in pre-ignition and detonation by dissipating heat more efficiently via the electrode and conical shape base, along with a reduced chance of vibration breakage with the shorter ground electrode. And, they cost about twice what the BR9ES does.
The one substitution that is NOT recommended is to use the NGK BR9EYA in anything other than applications that specify this plug. This spark plug is primarily found in Arctic Cat two-stroke applications.
I've never had a ten But I've had 5 two's
GARAGE FULL OF WEDGIES
1998 XC 700
1998 XC 600
1998 XCF 440
1997 SKS 700
2003 Pro X oops thats an "edgie"
1976 tx 340
1972 colt 340
1974 John Deere 400
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 12:07 AM
[ Modified November 5th 2009 at 12:09 AM
]
|
|
| |
|
|
03Pro-X700
Senior Member
03Pro-X700 wants to get rid of my cdi, tach, wiring harness, and old cover. PM if interested.
Updated Last Sunday at 11:26 PM
|
2414 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 13th 2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 2003 Pro-X 700 144"
2008-2009 Miles: 860
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by FanaticEdgeX
Weren't the Champion plugs specific to the Liberty motor to also burn in two heat ranges because you can turn the key on premium and it advances the timing? When its on premium does it advance the timing through the entire RPM range? I remember a long time ago someone on here said it only advances the timing after 7000RPM. In any case, all I know is it costs me about $12 for two spark plugs.
Yes, the timing is advanced 2* with the switch on premium, however it is above 6,500 rpm, not 7000. Everything below that RPM is the exact same map for both regular and premium settings, once it hits that 6,500 rpm range, the timing is increased, thus creating more h.p essentially. I have noticed nearly a 4 mph difference on my pro x during 1000 ft ice drags when switching between the 2 settings.
2003 pro-x 700;
TracksUSA 144" tip-up rail extensions
1.25 camoplast predator /120 1.40' extreme max SS studs
VanAmburg tunnel extension
SLP Powder-Pro skis, Powder-Coated suspension
Holtzman tempaflow-420 main jets
10-64g weights w/ round almond spring
24/42 gearing, gutted airbox, PERC, torque arm
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 9:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
shortstop20
I NEED SNOW!!!!
|
3839 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 9th 2004
Location: Stickney, SD, USA
Current Sled: '09 Summit XP 800R 154" X
2008-2009 Miles: 400
|
|
|
|
| |
^^^^^^
Spot on info there.
2009 Ski-Doo Summit XP 800 154" X package - Quick Clickers, Between the Lines Designs Ice Scratchers, Tunnel & Rail Stiffeners
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 2:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
Craig_Polaris
Junior Member
|
147 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 11th 2008
Location: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Current Sled: 2002 Edge X 800
|
|
|
|
| |
So with my 800 liberty engine i should be running champs? which ones though?
2002 Edge x 800; Recently swallowed a valve so, New wiseco pistons, rings, pins, circlips, renikisil cylinders, and updated lower end bearings.
- Slp single Pipe and Can
- Vforce3 Reeds
- Slp air horn and gutted box
- 140/310 Slp primary spring
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 4:03 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 icefish's because having feeling in your fingertips is overrated.
Updated Over 4 hours ago
|
12582 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
|
|
|
|
| |
rn57ycc
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 5:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Backwoodsrider
Man--I love the Deep stuff!!
|
454 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 28th 2006
Location: Rapid River, MI, USA
Current Sled: '05 RMK 800
2008-2009 Miles: 2043
|
|
|
|
| |
AWWW HELL....no wonder I get stuck all the time, I've been running the wrong friggin plugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
November 5th 2009 at 6:29 PM
|
|
| |
|
|
FanaticEdgeX
Average Member
|
956 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 1st 2005
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
2008-2009 Miles: 300
|
|
|
|
| |
Quote originally posted by 03Pro-X700
Quote originally posted by FanaticEdgeX
Weren't the Champion plugs specific to the Liberty motor to also burn in two heat ranges because you can turn the key on premium and it advances the timing? When its on premium does it advance the timing through the entire RPM range? I remember a long time ago someone on here said it only advances the timing after 7000RPM. In any case, all I know is it costs me about $12 for two spark plugs.
Yes, the timing is advanced 2* with the switch on premium, however it is above 6,500 rpm, not 7000. Everything below that RPM is the exact same map for both regular and premium settings, once it hits that 6,500 rpm range, the timing is increased, thus creating more h.p essentially. I have noticed nearly a 4 mph difference on my pro x during 1000 ft ice drags when switching between the 2 settings.
Thanks for the info. I notice a difference around that rpm range on premium. It seems to smooth out and its almost like it hits a slight power band within that range. I use to add Klotz octane booster to. Not sure if it really made a difference but man it smells good.
Scott
EPI PRO clutch kit, dropped one tooth on top gear,VForce 3 reeds, SLP Airhorn Kit, gutted air box, SLP 2" Flowrites, MBRP Trail can, 144 1" studs, Trail Blazer 6" carbides, Polaris security system, Sportech 3" articulating bar riser, Sportech flat black handgaurds, yellow skid plate, silverstar headlights, shock socks, custom aluminum windshield, flat black headlight cover, custom exhaust cover, and there are blue lights under the hood.
|
|
|
|
|
0 user(s) are reading this topic (0 Members and
0 Guests)
|
 |
|
