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why do 4 strokes last so much longer than 2 strokes?
- ?
started by 87srvsnow
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November 7th 2009 at 11:29 AM
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87srvsnow
Average Member
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988 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: October 19th 2008
Location: massachusetts, USA
Current Sled: 1987 yamaha srv
2008-2009 Miles: 26
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why does a 4 stroke engine last longer than a 2 stroke, on average? i was thinking, and it seems like a 2 stroke, would last longer because it has less moving parts, and so it would have less places to fail and less to wear. what makes 4 strokes so durable and reliable?
Bambi would have been a better and shorter movie if he was shot in the beginning with his mother
if a ride on lawn mower takes bumps better than your sled, its time to upgrade
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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November 7th 2009 at 11:35 AM
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Ugly_old_Poo_kid
techno-bumpkin
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1079 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: March 18th 2007
Location: Walworth, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 Edge & Frankenstorm II
2008-2009 Miles: 165
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4-strokes only put out power half the time a 2-stroke does (1 power stroke for 4 strokes, or 1 power stroke per 2 strokes)... So technically double he life of a 2-stroke and then compare it to a 4 stroke.
95 - Storm 800 - Modded - AKA: FrankenStorm - Totalled near 100mph at Tug Hill!
96 - XLT/SP with Storm 800 trip/trip and now EFI - FrankenStorm II lives...
95 - RXL -- Sale Pending --
05 - Edge 800 long track - Stayin' stock for now..
---------------------------------------------
It made me more compassionate, more empathetic, more nurturing...
I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN MY OWN WORST NIGHTMARE!!!
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November 7th 2009 at 11:38 AM
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87srvsnow
Average Member
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988 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 19th 2008
Location: massachusetts, USA
Current Sled: 1987 yamaha srv
2008-2009 Miles: 26
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oh, i didnt really think of that. i guess that would put a lot of strain on an engine. thanks
Bambi would have been a better and shorter movie if he was shot in the beginning with his mother
if a ride on lawn mower takes bumps better than your sled, its time to upgrade
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November 7th 2009 at 3:02 PM
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Geiger
Starting Member
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24 Posts
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Member Since: August 6th 2009
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also compare the thickness of premix to 0w-40. premix does the job when it comes to lubing, but nothing like regular oil
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November 7th 2009 at 4:13 PM
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Big-Guy_Small-Sled
The Starter of Fire
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176 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: January 24th 2009
Location: Honeoye, New York, USA
Current Sled: 1997 Indy Ultra SPX
2008-2009 Miles: 700
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Well said pooumkin bumpkin.
"Brendan"
Current Sled/s:
1999 Polaris Indy XLT Special/We name it fire hound!
1997 Polaris Indy Ultra Spx
1991 Polaris Indy 400
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November 7th 2009 at 4:36 PM
[ Modified November 7th 2009 at 4:36 PM
]
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arcticcatmatt
Spleen Splitter
arcticcatmatt leaving after work for 3 days of shotgun season back home!
Updated Friday at 12:16 PM
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Current Sled: 96/97 ZRT 600
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2 strokes wear more than 4 strokes for various reasons.
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November 9th 2009 at 9:37 PM
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700wildcat
Official Heat Hater.
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159 Posts
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Member Since: January 2nd 2009
Location: Hazelton, North Dakota, USA
Current Sled: '08 Arctic Cat M8 153"
2008-2009 Miles: 1100
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2-strokes are generally running at higher rpm's than 4-strokes so that causes them to wear out faster too.
2008 Arctic cat M8 153''Stock >current
1996 Arctic cat Wildcat 700 136x2x15 challenger finger track, 3'' riser, Powermadd mountain bar.sold
1980 Arctic cat Jag 3000. sold
Dad's
2003 Arctic Cat Mountain cat 800 144''.
1999 Arctic Cat Powder Special 500. sold
2000 Polaris Indy 550 Trail.
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November 9th 2009 at 10:29 PM
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Twill08
Junior Member
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303 Posts
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four strokes don't have to pass over an intake and an exhaust port.
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November 9th 2009 at 10:36 PM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts 
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Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
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2008-2009 Miles: 500
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take a 4 stroke run it at 8500 rpms see how long it last
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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November 10th 2009 at 12:09 AM
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driftpounder
Canadian Psycho
driftpounder can already hear the BBBBRRRRRAAAAAPPPPP! of the MBRP.
Updated Last Monday at 3:23 PM
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Current Sled: 2006 Compfusion
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^^^^^^11,000 RPMS for some of Yami's 4 strokes, that seems to be faster then 8,500 RPMS or at least to me.
'06 Fusion 700 0 miles just bought it
High Flow SLP Air Box
Hot Air Elimination Kit
MBRP
136/15/1.5 Ripsaw tracks usa kit
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November 10th 2009 at 6:26 AM
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Luke
Snowmofile
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903 Posts
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The bottom end bearings have a lot to do with it. A 4 stroke engine has a wide journal bearing surface that rides on an oil film between the journal and the bearing itslef, with oil being supplied by an oil pump at say 30 psi or so. ( I dont really know what 4stroke sleds run for oil press, but 30 is a good number just for an example). So the force of each power stoke is exerted over a large area.
2 stroke sleds have deep groove ball bearings with a much smaller contact area then that of a 4 stroke. So the force of each power stroke is exerted over a much smaller area then that of a 4 stroke. Also, 2 stroke oil is not supplied under pressure to "lift" the breaing off the journal surface like in a 4 stroke, it jst flows into the breaings and then right back out to mix and be burned.
1998 XC 700
SLP pipe, boost bottle, power packs, VForce, clutched, Ripsaw 1.25, M-10 susp, 2 in riser, handlebar hooks, third testicle, and good brakes.
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
Amsoil dealer
http://www.galushascottages.com
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November 14th 2009 at 4:30 PM
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Shrapnel
Turbos Make The World Go Round
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205 Posts
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Quote originally posted by driftpounder
^^^^^^11,000 RPMS for some of Yami's 4 strokes, that seems to be faster then 8,500 RPMS or at least to me.
some 4 stroke rice rockets do up to 14000rpm. also if you get any water in a 2 stroke it will destroy the side of a piston, a 4 stroke will just run rough till the water burns off.
eat my pow'.
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November 14th 2009 at 4:48 PM
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CC for CC and horsepower for horsepower, a 4-stroke won't last any longer than a 2-stroke. if you can understand that. for example, a 500 2-stroke twin puts out roughly 75 horspower. ok, now if you try to get a 500 4-stroke twin to put out comparative power, it won't last any longer before needing just as much, if not usually more maintenance than a 2-stroke. I could go much deaper into the subject, but this will only create another 2 vs. 4 war.
right
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November 14th 2009 at 8:14 PM
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Shrapnel
Turbos Make The World Go Round
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205 Posts
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Member Since: December 28th 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Current Sled: 500 SKS EFI
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Quote originally posted by butcher_boy
CC for CC and horsepower for horsepower, a 4-stroke won't last any longer than a 2-stroke. if you can understand that. for example, a 500 2-stroke twin puts out roughly 75 horspower. ok, now if you try to get a 500 4-stroke twin to put out comparative power, it won't last any longer before needing just as much, if not usually more maintenance than a 2-stroke. I could go much deaper into the subject, but this will only create another 2 vs. 4 war.
but how dose' the new 1000cc 400hp yamaha stand up?
eat my pow'.
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November 14th 2009 at 10:01 PM
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07Phazer
Junior Member
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336 Posts
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Location: Waukesha, WI, USA
Current Sled: 2007 Yamaha Phazer
2008-2009 Miles: 400
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Quote originally posted by Geiger
also compare the thickness of premix to 0w-40. premix does the job when it comes to lubing, but nothing like regular oil
That is pretty much the reason right there. A 4-stroke engine has a far superior oiling system than a 2-stroke engine. A 4-stroke engine uses an oil pump to distribute oil throughout the engine via passages and ports in the block, bearings, valvetrain, etc. Generally, a 2-stroke relies on a mist of oil distributed throughout the crankcase and through the ports for lubrication. Sometimes a specific bearing is feed lube, but not always.
Beyond that, injector oil is mixed with gas during the normal operation of the engine of a 2-stroke. Gas is NOT a very good lubricant. The fuel and oil systems are two separate systems on a 4-stroke, and the only place they meet is in the cylinder bores.
There is one definite advantage to a 2-stroke oiling system though: it's omni-directional. Meaning, the engine can be run in any position, and it will still get lubrication. Think of your chainsaw, turn it 90 degrees and what happens? It keeps running. This is something that 4-strokes generally cannot do. Tip your car on its side with the engine running and what happens? Bad noises and lots of smoke.  The oil pump usually has to be at the lowest point on a 4-stroke, and it you tip the engine enough, the oil will pool away from the pump and starve the engine.
Quote originally posted by stormrider62033
take a 4 stroke run it at 8500 rpms see how long it last
Umm, quite a while.
My Kawi Ninja 250 has a redline of 13,000 rpm and spent about 1300 miles solid between 9,000 and 10,000 rpm this summer. Still runs great, and has 8,000 miles on it. My brand new Yami FZ6R has a redline of 11,500 rpm, with a rev-limiter at 13,000 rpm. My '07 Phazer redlines at 12,000 rpm and spends most of its life between 7,000 and 10,000 rpm.
Yamaha R6 engines hit almost 17,000 rpm, and Formula One V-10's get to almost 20,000 rpm.
Quote originally posted by Shrapnel
also if you get any water in a 2 stroke it will destroy the side of a piston, a 4 stroke will just run rough till the water burns off.
Fuel contaminated with water, yes, a 4-stroke will generally be able to handle that a little better. However, 4-strokes don't like water any more than 2-strokes. Water is incompressible, no matter what type of engine you put it in.
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Last Sunday at 8:28 PM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 25th 2004
Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
Current Sled: 99xcr 800
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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thats correct but those are what i call special built engines ,I was thinking of the 500 mile nascar engines
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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Last Monday at 4:34 AM
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Ugly_old_Poo_kid
techno-bumpkin
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1079 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 18th 2007
Location: Walworth, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 Edge & Frankenstorm II
2008-2009 Miles: 165
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Quote originally posted by Shrapnel
but how dose' the new 1000cc 400hp yamaha stand up?
Usually on the back tire...
95 - Storm 800 - Modded - AKA: FrankenStorm - Totalled near 100mph at Tug Hill!
96 - XLT/SP with Storm 800 trip/trip and now EFI - FrankenStorm II lives...
95 - RXL -- Sale Pending --
05 - Edge 800 long track - Stayin' stock for now..
---------------------------------------------
It made me more compassionate, more empathetic, more nurturing...
I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN MY OWN WORST NIGHTMARE!!!
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Last Monday at 9:06 AM
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shortstop20
I NEED SNOW!!!!
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3839 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 9th 2004
Location: Stickney, SD, USA
Current Sled: '09 Summit XP 800R 154" X
2008-2009 Miles: 400
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Quote originally posted by Shrapnel
Quote originally posted by driftpounder
^^^^^^11,000 RPMS for some of Yami's 4 strokes, that seems to be faster then 8,500 RPMS or at least to me.
some 4 stroke rice rockets do up to 14000rpm. also if you get any water in a 2 stroke it will destroy the side of a piston, a 4 stroke will just run rough till the water burns off.
They run even higher than that.
The current Yamaha YZF-R6 redlines at about 16,800 RPM's I believe, somewhere around there.
My '05 R6 redlines at 15,500 RPM's, 14,000 RPM's is nothing to shake a stick at anymore in the sportbike world.
2009 Ski-Doo Summit XP 800 154" X package - Quick Clickers, Between the Lines Designs Ice Scratchers, Tunnel & Rail Stiffeners
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