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sled from hell
- 2002 800 rmk refuses to run cool
started by sodbuster
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January 28th 2008 at 11:37 PM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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first of all a big thanks to the powers that be for providing this site!@!!!
I'm new here so apologies in advance if I get outta line.
very recently I became the proud (or so I thought) owner of a 2002 800 RMK.
Went to the twin cities to pick it up, drove it around the mystic lake casino
parking lot grass and was -IMPRESSED- by its power...just awesome...well all
good things must end but preferably not so soon, got home, (northwest iowa) and
proceeded to unload it and found that it already had developed a HUGE compression
leak into the coolant system and in less that a minute had blown the resevoir
practically dry. First thing to do is fill it back up right? Couldn't get hold
of the seller so we put in new orings and gaskets and proceeded to give it the
ole college try, NADA!!! blew the rings pronto....
long story short, we checked into the sled...found out the first three owners
all bailed out of it after spending about a gazillion.
new cranks (twice) new pistons (once) and no one can explain why it keeps running
hot and blowing gaskets and o rings.
First thing the boy and I did is check to see if there was an obstruction in one
of the lines and heat exchangers but other than that I'm stumped as the previous
owners all tried the expensive fixes and failed.....
anyone have any ideas?
ps...I'm not even gonna get into the SOB that sold me the devil dog.
peace
sodbuster.
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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January 29th 2008 at 8:13 AM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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i guess id check the thermostat, and then the water pump maybe for a loose or broken impellor to start. sounds like its been apart enough who knows what you may find
Sorry I havent got anything else
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January 29th 2008 at 9:48 AM
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440_Rocket
Hit the LOUD button! BRAAAAPPPP
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469 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 8th 2006
Location: Minnesota
Current Sled: 02 XC 800 MOD
2008-2009 Miles: 200 broken
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i sent you and email, hope that it helps.
02 XC 800, ported, piped, polished intakes, SLP big mouth, 70 gram EPI weights and sliver spring. race skis, big wheel kit and Tracks usa 136" kit 1.25" redline track. 23-41 gears, 132 studs, and it will about pull my arms off!!
My WIFE has big JUGS, And so does my SLED!
XC 800 mod YEEEE HAAAA
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January 29th 2008 at 10:55 AM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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originally when I bought it I had scheduled a "preseason" checkup for it, thinking I was going out west with it pretty soon. Then, when I had the trouble and brought it in, they had gotten a few items like a recoil rope, water pump belt ready, so those were a few things we did right away.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote originally posted by mrholmquist
i guess id check the thermostat, and then the water pump maybe for a loose or broken impellor to start. sounds like its been apart enough who knows what you may find
Sorry I havent got anything else
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January 29th 2008 at 3:38 PM
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myvertxcape
Bring It, Don't Sing It!
myvertxcape flu sucks azz.
Updated Thursday at 8:00 PM
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2640 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: July 10th 2005
Location: Kotlik, AK, USA
Current Sled: '07/8 600RMK 144's
2008-2009 Miles: 6200
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Impeller is shot, stripped out. It is plastic and will strip out once overheated. Change it out and remove your thermostat so you won't have a restricted flow of coolant, this I believe is why the impellers strip out. I did it to my Pro-X2 a couple years ago, no coolant problems since.
'08 600RMK 144" 6565 miles
SLP single pipe/can, intake kit, footwell vents, Clutching
my own shockwell intake vent, VMI rack, backrest
'07 600RMK 144" 2725 miles
SLP can, VMI rack! Footwell vents
RAW chassis tunnel bag for sale, fits RMK's and Switchbacks. $80 new, $60 shipped within US(looks like new) http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/...splay.aspx
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January 30th 2008 at 8:30 AM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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I'll check that for sure, thanks!
Quote originally posted by myvertxcape
Impeller is shot, stripped out. It is plastic and will strip out once overheated. Change it out and remove your thermostat so you won't have a restricted flow of coolant, this I believe is why the impellers strip out. I did it to my Pro-X2 a couple years ago, no coolant problems since.
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January 30th 2008 at 3:06 PM
[ Modified January 30th 2008 at 3:09 PM
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Shrapnel
Brown November. :(
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204 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 28th 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Current Sled: 500 SKS EFI
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what kind of spark plugs are you useing? if they are too hot they will start blowing things, what exatley happens to the rings? are they getting caught in the exaust ports?
eat my pow'.
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January 30th 2008 at 3:16 PM
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PIPEDMXZ
SledHed
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70 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 11th 2007
Location: maine, USA
Current Sled: MX Z 500
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ive got a buddy that has the same problem with an 01 or 02 mach z 800 triple...that thing seems like its always runnin' like that...
Fire it up
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January 31st 2008 at 7:20 AM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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the plugs are stock according to the dealer.
As far as what specifically happens to the o-rings...
As I understand it the 2 pairs of o-rings form the top seal of the water jacket between the
jugs and the head, and along with that, are also the only thing used to hold the compression
inside the jugs.
Pretty sure I'm right with that, if I'm not, somebody please Bit@h-slap me, ok?
Anyway, we have found the o-rings get beat up to the point where they won't hold compression
in the cylinder, and the exhaust gets into the coolant via the top (it looks like to me anyway)
of the engine, and also, the second o-ring getting beat up allows the coolant to escape via
the head bolts.
This last time, that's what happened. The mechanic "fixed it" and rode it a bit, pronounced
it a screamer and shut it down. My son went to pick it up, started it and the anti-freeze
immediately started coming out the head bolts. We looked at it closer and found the headbolts
ALL loose at that point. Hence the stretched headbolt theory.
I've talked to 3 or 4 machinists and none of them want to look at it "in" the sled, but I've
decided to do for now is see if I can just get someone to measure the top surface of the jugs
and see if they're aligned or not, and check the head to see if ok (again) and then who knows....
thanks,
Ed.
Quote originally posted by Shrapnel
what kind of spark plugs are you useing? if they are too hot they will start blowing things, what exatley happens to the rings? are they getting caught in the exaust ports?
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January 31st 2008 at 4:58 PM
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polaris91
117 racing
polaris91 ugh.
Updated Tuesday at 8:30 PM
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3646 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 9th 2006
Location: bridgeport, new york, USA
Current Sled: 1991 indymod/2005 xcsp600
2008-2009 Miles: 2900
2009-2010 Miles: grass!?
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thats not true there is also a gasket under the heads to hold the compression not the o rings
1990 indy trail bored.20over, ported and polished, cluched and geared, chaincase/brakes/jackshaft from 93 xlt, headlight cover, teather, some custom painting, black skid plate, blue running board trim, fox shocks, blue/gray powermadd handguards, 2 in powermadd riser, fly bars/barpad,blue leds(underglow),1 in lug track, teather mount from a 96xcr440,blue guage bulbs, blue c&as, xtra 10 rear, and edge seat and tank.
2005 xcsp 600,chrome windy,stripped decals,3.5 inch rox riser,white powermadd handguards,white c&a ultra 3 skis 6in shapers,camoplast cobra,slp can,fly bars/barpad,xeon headlight bulbs,rsi barhooks,odi grips,light blue clutch spring,slp vents,black headlight cover,billet wheels,rydefx clicker,
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January 31st 2008 at 5:17 PM
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Indy_500_Classic
Young Ripper
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333 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 21st 2007
Location: Barrie, ON, Canada
Current Sled: '91 Indy 500 Classic
2008-2009 Miles: 0.0
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Quote originally posted by polaris91
thats not true there is also a gasket under the heads to hold the compression not the o rings
Yeah, it's a metallic one, that when you torque the head nuts, it "squishes" the gasket appropriately.
1991 Polaris Indy 500 Classic
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January 31st 2008 at 7:44 PM
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myvertxcape
Bring It, Don't Sing It!
myvertxcape flu sucks azz.
Updated Thursday at 8:00 PM
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2640 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: July 10th 2005
Location: Kotlik, AK, USA
Current Sled: '07/8 600RMK 144's
2008-2009 Miles: 6200
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Quote originally posted by Indy_500_Classic
Quote originally posted by polaris91
thats not true there is also a gasket under the heads to hold the compression not the o rings
Yeah, it's a metallic one, that when you torque the head nuts, it "squishes" the gasket appropriately.
You guys obviously don't know what you are talking about.  Your 500's were designed 20 years ago, newer Liberty sleds have rubber O-rings between the cylinders and head.
'08 600RMK 144" 6565 miles
SLP single pipe/can, intake kit, footwell vents, Clutching
my own shockwell intake vent, VMI rack, backrest
'07 600RMK 144" 2725 miles
SLP can, VMI rack! Footwell vents
RAW chassis tunnel bag for sale, fits RMK's and Switchbacks. $80 new, $60 shipped within US(looks like new) http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/...splay.aspx
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January 31st 2008 at 8:09 PM
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Indy_500_Classic
Young Ripper
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333 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 21st 2007
Location: Barrie, ON, Canada
Current Sled: '91 Indy 500 Classic
2008-2009 Miles: 0.0
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I stand corrected, wasn't aware of the o-rings. Would gaskets last long than an o-ring?
1991 Polaris Indy 500 Classic
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February 1st 2008 at 7:10 AM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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a couple things.. the last time it happened I DID notice the bolts were all loose,
so I'm assuming they ARE stretched.
We checked the flow on the circuit with a garden hose, but at the suggestion of a
another sledder I need to check if the heat exchangers are warming up.
Also, talked to a mechanic from Randy's Iron Works in Orange City, IA (Thanks Race Randy)
who by chance had two brothers that owned -the exact model sled- less than a year ago.
His first comment (before even seeing the engine) was that -FOR SURE- the case was
twisted. After measuring it and the head, he shook his
head and said no, the head was perfect and the jugs were straight (there fore the
case should be as well) but that there was one low spot on
one jug (about 1.5 thousanths) right in the middle where the two cylinders are closest.
He said he had worked on his brothers sled several times but since he was really more
familiar
with yamahas and skidoos, he asked me to check with a Polaris specialist to see if
that was too much.
(I did and they felt it probably wasn't too much to worry about)
Back to Race Randy...
What he also noticed was that someone had bored it out, resleeved it with cast,
-and- used skidoo pistons when they reassembled it.
He said that he wasn't sure that either of those two things were a -problem- just
that they raised more red flags.
Oh, and another thing I'd like to do yet, but can't find is a 12 ac temp sender.
The sled uses an ac sender but it's only an idiot light on/off and I haven't been
able to find one for an actual gauge. Failng that I'll have to use a long stem
thermometer in the reservoir. Will that work?
Any other ideas please feel to pipe up guys (and gals),
I appreciate all your help.
Ed.
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February 2nd 2008 at 4:34 PM
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ProjectRMK
...now rides a M1000
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523 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: March 3rd 2004
Location: Boise, ID, USA
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As far as the stretched bolt theory and why your coolant is going where it's not, the only help I have to offer is this link to an Illustrated Parts Breakdown. This will show you exactly how it's supposed be if it was built after 03/01/01. (There's TONS of other parts breakdowns here as well, just dig around...) http://www.partsland.com/index.cgi?N=120...K-CYLINDER
The other advice I have, after you get the motor fixed and everything else seems to be working, is to fill the system with coolant, lay the sled on the left side for a bit, (all the coolant lines lead to the right side, so you want to elevate the right side to get the air out) set it back upright, then raise the front of the sled so any air bubbles in the system migrate to the highest spot (Engine). You want the engine to be the high spot, and the front of the edge coolers above the rear cooler. Now, set it back down and run it to heat up and open the t-stat. There is a small bolt on the t-stat housing that is for bleeding air out of the cooling system. While it's running and before the t-stat opens, loosen this bolt and bleed out any air that may be trapped in the system. Once the edge coolers start to heat up, you know the t-stat is open and coolant is flowing. Once the air stops sputtering out of the bleed bolt, tighten it back down and shut the sled down and let everything cool off. You may need to add coolant depending on how much air is in your system. Do this one more time and you should have all the air out of the system, avoiding an 'air-lock'.
When you are satified all the air is out, get a set of rail mounted scratchers installed. Whenever you are on the trail, put the scratchers down so the snow spray will cool the coolers. Trust me, you will see a decrease of about 30* in engine temps if you use the scratchers. This works on all sleds, but is a time proven fix to keep the Polaris 800's from overheating.
You can spend alot of money on a Polaris 800 trying to figure out why it overheats, when a simple set of scratchers IS the fix.
Good luck!
Boise, Idaho
USA
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February 3rd 2008 at 3:30 PM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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Hey!!!
Thanks for the link.
well I got some head bolts from granger, they're not the flange type but
at 8.25 or so for 25 instead of 8 or so a piece I figured I'll try to figure
out how to seal the head cover somehow.
I checked into pretty much everything you all suggested (including the scratchers)
and now have it back in one piece as it were. I'm a little hesitant to actually
start it up but we did check the head psi and it holds tight at 149 lbs both sides.
it's sunday and I'd love to know what stock is. Anybody have a quick answer on that,
or any other little tidbits of wisdom before we give it the old college try?
Also, what would be a safe octane for this sled?
Thanks again,
Ed.
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February 3rd 2008 at 4:07 PM
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whitexc
Average Member
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946 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 19th 2006
Location: Pendleton, NY, USA
Current Sled: XC
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It never hurts to run good fuel...except maybe your wallet. I run a minimum of 91 octane in my sled that has some modifications. Make sure you bleed the air out of the cooling system as described above. That done correctly can save lots of time/money/aggravation. Good luck and keep us informed.
Polaris...it IS the way out!
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February 3rd 2008 at 5:22 PM
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MX86
Powder Rider
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1640 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: March 1st 2007
Location: Nashwauk, Minnesota, USA
Current Sled: 1999 polaris 700 SKS mod
2008-2009 Miles: not enough
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couple questions I have.
The head is for sure not warped? and neither is the jug where the head meet?
What base gasket thickness are you running? and what is the Static compression currently?
was the waterpump gone through and replaced? and did you check all the lines and fittings to make sure that nothing is being blocked? none of the head bolts where stripped? i think that's all for now
2006 Yamaha YZ250
KYB SSS Suspension w/ Race Tech G2 gold Valve, ASV F3 levers, Tag Metals Triple clamp w/Pro Taper Bars, IMS Pro Series Pegs, Motion Pro Twist Throttle Assembly, VF3 Reeds
Thanks to my newest 09 Sponsors:
Gravity Worx Racing
Duner Central
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February 3rd 2008 at 6:47 PM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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had a couple guys look at and straight edge it and both said that the head and cylinders looked ok, except for -one low spot- on one cylinder where it was 1 to 2 thousandths low. Compression was something I was wondering about all along until today when I finally got some new head bolts. It checked out at 149 on both sides. (don't quite dare to start it tho) The coolant lines I checked out to the point of tearing EVERYTHING apart and blowing water thru. The water pump was rebuilt and a new belt.
On the gasket, would it be possible to get a thicker metallic one to lower the compression slightly? The oem gaskets are all paper and I was thinking if it was a situation where someone had shaved off too much I could possibly do my self a favor by bringing it down a few psi. Dunno if that is even possible, for sure not with the paper gaskets tho I think.
What are the downsides to running TOO high an octane of fuel in it?
I'm itching to start it up, but I've never been able to get it to stay together for more than a few minutes once it was warmed up. So, to say I'm anxious to try it is an understatement, but I'll tell you what, my sphincter is also pinching at the thought of blowing another 35.00 set of o-rings.
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February 4th 2008 at 7:30 PM
[ Modified February 4th 2008 at 7:31 PM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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I am thinking you have a crack somewhere allowing compression to blow into the cooling system.
Perhaps you can figure out a way to pressure test it with air. What I was thinking was maybe holding the clutch somehow (strap wrench??)
so that the piston was covering the ports and pressurize the cylinder with air through the spark plug hole(use a regulator to maybe 30 psi to start). Check and see if the air starts to bubble into the coolant if you leave the rad cap off the air would push the coolant out.
Try both cylinders this way. Wish I had a better idea for you
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February 4th 2008 at 7:38 PM
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b.lee
Cummins Fanatic
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401 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 27th 2005
Location: Almont, MI, USA
Current Sled: 2001 MXZ 600
2008-2009 Miles: 2,101+
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sell it.
life's too short for troubleshooting for extended periods of time.
;)
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February 4th 2008 at 7:57 PM
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randall
arctic cat fanatic!
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552 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 5th 2007
Location: winona, mn, USA
Current Sled: 04 sabercat 600
2008-2009 Miles: 475
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^^^^^ you dont want someone else to go through what he just had to go through though... if your gonna sell it make sure you give them a fair warning.
"Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."
1 john 3:18
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February 4th 2008 at 8:26 PM
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lol he might aswell heave it in his backyard then^ part it out,or buy a new engine maybe? my sled keeps on over heating aswell and im not sure what the problem is, maybe we should start a group and write letters to polaris about having these egged sleds,
If she's eazy take er twice!
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February 4th 2008 at 9:45 PM
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sodbuster
Starting Member
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17 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 28th 2008
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The first time I ran it this afternoon, we warmed it up, checking the fluid with a heat gun -and-
a dial thermometer. It never got over 129 degrees.
We let it cool down well and re torqued the bolts. None of them needed more than just a slight
nudge to break the torque "clicker" again. Maybe a couple degrees of rotation at very most. I was
pretty hopeful at that point.
The thing that is giving me fits is that it blows the seal on all six of the head bolts on both cylinders. It does
it worse on the one cylinder, yes, but when I look closely there is some damage (to one extent or another)
of the o-ring being pushed out on all 12 of the head bolts.
BTW...When the MECHS checked the head and cylinders they said that the sleeves are nice and level with
the aluminum on the outside of the o-ring channel. Of course it's cold at that point.
Take a close look at the seal by each head bolt, you can see where it looks almost like it is squished on the
-outside- of the o-ring channel. It's not just on one side tho, it's like that ALL the way around it.
Ed
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