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Storm Gearing
started by yellowstorm800
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January 15th 2009 at 11:40 AM
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BattleStorm
New Member
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91 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: September 19th 2008
Current Sled: XCR 800, Storm
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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I've run Boysen and now have in V-Force 2's, they both work but the Boysen reeds will last allot longer.
2000 XCR 800
1994 Storm
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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January 18th 2009 at 11:06 AM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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WOW...been through this entire thread and I'm speechless...too bad y'all weren't alot closer to my house so we could have some fun out on my track...garage is full of endless supplies of Polaris clutching and gearing parts and a small heated workshop on the lake to change it all in...of course hot cocoa or coffee is always at the ready :) Storm, Storm, Storm...what can be said about them that hasn't already...except I run my Storm with gearing and clutching a century away from what I'm reading on here...but to each their own...enjoy your Storms fellas cause they won't be around forever
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 18th 2009 at 7:57 PM
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bgbytor800
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 28th 2008
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I know it was discussed eariler but wondering if I can get some details on Helix's I went ahead and stayed with Stock Track this year and studded 168
V force reeds
clutch springs from EPI
I think the stock is a R2 hole #2
Is there a recommended helix Full progressive? Mfg and size.
Also was the exhaust on the 95 same as 96
Also I see Battlestorm changed CDI to 93 94 being hotter is this more advance? '
thanks
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January 19th 2009 at 6:37 AM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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The exhaust is different from a 95-96 because the 96 is an Aggressive chassis and the 95 is a Wedge.
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January 19th 2009 at 8:06 AM
[ Modified January 19th 2009 at 8:12 AM
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BattleStorm
New Member
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91 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 19th 2008
Current Sled: XCR 800, Storm
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Quote originally posted by 128mphSTORM
WOW...been through this entire thread and I'm speechless...too bad y'all weren't alot closer to my house so we could have some fun out on my track...garage is full of endless supplies of Polaris clutching and gearing parts and a small heated workshop on the lake to change it all in...of course hot cocoa or coffee is always at the ready :) Storm, Storm, Storm...what can be said about them that hasn't already...except I run my Storm with gearing and clutching a century away from what I'm reading on here...but to each their own...enjoy your Storms fellas cause they won't be around forever
What year is your Storm and whaty is done to it? What clutching and gearing do you run?
Quote originally posted by bgbytor800
I know it was discussed eariler but wondering if I can get some details on Helix's I went ahead and stayed with Stock Track this year and studded 168
V force reeds
clutch springs from EPI
I think the stock is a R2 hole #2
Is there a recommended helix Full progressive? Mfg and size.
Also was the exhaust on the 95 same as 96
Also I see Battlestorm changed CDI to 93 94 being hotter is this more advance? '
thanks
I really don't recommend a mfg for a helix, I think if its a full progressive, there all going to be close. Dalton makes a nice one but its allot of $. The SLP helix's shift out super fast compared to others so you can't go as agressive with an SLP helix as you normaly would.
My 94 CDI is the one my sled came with. If a 94 Storm had a CDI problem it got replaced with a less hot, less advanced CDI box.
2000 XCR 800
1994 Storm
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January 19th 2009 at 8:03 PM
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bgbytor800
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 28th 2008
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Battlestorm
so I understand MFG but when do you know what Helix angles to start with?
44 / 38
44 / 40
45
45 / 33
45 / 34
45 / 37
45 / 39
45 / 44
ETC??? I see Daltons Full progessive but trying to understand what angles
My Storm
96
V force reeds
168 Stock Studded Track
Stock Gearing as of now (Plans to change)
Stock Pipes and porting (Next year)
Stock Jetting
White EPI Primary
Yellow EPI Secondary
THanks@!!
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January 19th 2009 at 9:30 PM
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PAStorm
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 5th 2008
Location: mohnton, PA, USA
Current Sled: 93 Storm
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128mphStorm, I would be really interested in how your storm is set up, PAStorm
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January 20th 2009 at 2:51 PM
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BattleStorm
New Member
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91 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 19th 2008
Current Sled: XCR 800, Storm
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Quote originally posted by bgbytor800
Battlestorm
so I understand MFG but when do you know what Helix angles to start with?
44 / 38
44 / 40
45
45 / 33
45 / 34
45 / 37
45 / 39
45 / 44
ETC??? I see Daltons Full progessive but trying to understand what angles
My Storm
96
V force reeds
168 Stock Studded Track
Stock Gearing as of now (Plans to change)
Stock Pipes and porting (Next year)
Stock Jetting
White EPI Primary
Yellow EPI Secondary
THanks@!!
Experience, testing, trial and error is the only way to know.
With stock gear you can run a 50/36, 50/34, 48/36, 48/34, a Polaris R12, these will all work good. If you lower your gear then its all about traction. To aggressive of a helix and you will just spin the track.
2000 XCR 800
1994 Storm
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January 22nd 2009 at 9:13 PM
[ Modified January 22nd 2009 at 9:20 PM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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Ok...first off I wanna say that up here in Northern Ontario...Radar runs are typically 2000ft...some stretch it out to 3000 which leaves room for some peoples stupidity...that said...There is a sanctioned radar run that is 2000ft about 45min from where I live and it's based off Guiness World record criteria...so of course we all try our best to "Tap out" in that distance
For all interested (and I know there are 1 or 2 of you here) my Storm or "The Worm" as it's refered to at the track is a 1995 SKS with all obvious 96 updates...I have verified the timing, as factory timing marks on the flywheel are sometimes out of whack (normally on XLT's) but it's worth checking into for cheap horsepower...A stock storm can safely run as tight as .065" squish on premium fuel but because I put well over 2000miles a year trail riding it still, gas in some places can get sketchy, so I split the stock double head gaskets and took a squish test and came out at .073" if memory serves me correct (they do vary .004"-.006")pretty crude! I run regular unleaded with no problems after...get this, almost 17000MILES and about 40% of those miles were on the track...love this sled
my jetting is 360-370-400 but before anyone tries this...let me verify that first...haven't had the carbs apart in years and I'm going off old notes I found in the garage...LOL
I'm also running a jackshaft from a 1998XC700 which has the press on clutch side bearing which must be run slightly offset because the tunnels are different widths...but this alowws me to use the 3/4 HYVO gears and chain...which my friends...gains oodles of efficiency...so for trail riding I use the XC7's 24/40 gearing and stock Storm clutching..Blue Primary, 10/62 weights, 34deg helix and blue secondary...this setup yeilds 114.7mph and this is the killer...100-110miles to a tank of fuel...far cry from 60 or 65 miles to a tank stock...also...to make it all work, one of the cheapest efficiency upgrades is to take the drive shaft and have it put on a lathe to machine the plastic drive sprockets trued...if you have no idea what I'm talking about the lemme know and I'll explain it a little better...doesn't take much to ruin them if done wrong, but this will give you a free rolling track and more consistant runs, fuel mileage etc. I've seen wheels on the lathe hop so bad I thought the shaft was bent...but in reality the sprockets were that bad out of round...this costs 20-30 bucks...cheap go-fast tricks...I have extensive hours into the chassis and rear suspension lining it up and truing the chassis...I run my stock 95 CDI and peak horsepower is at 8250rpm give or take a couple...on the dyno in 3 seperate runs I was within 50rpm each time at peak....so it's all about interpreting the graph right?
As far as clutch setups for dragging...I've never entertained it since I have 3 other sleds to play with...(14yr old snocross races one...one is his trail sled and I drag my xc7)As for speed running...23/35HYVO gears gets me my 128mph in 2000ft as long as it's -15celcius or colder and the track is tight...did I forget anything?...chances are I did...just ask, I have no secrets
BTW...I'm at 800ft altitude and I can hold her at WOT for miles if I want to...no problems...last year on a local lake when it was packed really tight...I could squeeze the throttle on and off from 5/8ish to 3/4 and maintain 120 on the speedo for 16miles...what I'm getting at is making the chassis roll as resistance free as it can is 3/4 of the battle
INDY STORM
"RIDE THE LIGHTNING"
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 23rd 2009 at 9:00 PM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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What is the stock gearing in a Storm?
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January 23rd 2009 at 11:22 PM
[ Modified January 23rd 2009 at 11:29 PM
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PAStorm
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 5th 2008
Location: mohnton, PA, USA
Current Sled: 93 Storm
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128mphStorm,what is the difference in the 3\4 hyvo chain you are running compared to stock? I was running a 23 upper and 35 lower as recomended by PSI, just picked up a 39 lower, gets me close to your 24/40 so I am going to give it a try. I like the idea of truing the drive sprockets, I have a lathe so I will have to give it a try. My storm has a 136 with an M-10, I was thinking of going back to a 121 to save weight and rolling rezistance. I checked the squish (one cylinder only, I will check all three)with the double gaskets,.092 I am going to cut the heads to get to .065 I only ride localy and 93 octane is not a problem. Also thought about the Legend Thunder Domes, they claim 8hp ? and much better economy but for now cutting the heads myself is the cheaper way to go. Thanks for the info, PASTORM
yellowstorm800, hows the new motor ? I thought you would have posted on how its going or did you run into problems?
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January 24th 2009 at 7:43 AM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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Quote originally posted by PAStorm
yellowstorm800, hows the new motor ? I thought you would have posted on how its going or did you run into problems?
The new motor is great. It has got a ton more power than last year. I took second place out at a 800' radar run 2 weeks ago with 2 bad fuel pumps. I couldn't figure out why it was loading up so bad and then I went into the pumps and saw that they both had torn diaphrams. I just put it back together last night so today I can take it out and start playing with clutching and gearing. I think it was money well spent.
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January 24th 2009 at 7:54 AM
[ Modified January 24th 2009 at 8:00 AM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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PAStorm, the difference between the HYVO and the early style gears is the way the chain and sprockets mesh together...if you look closely at the peaks of the HYVO sprocket teeth, they are rounded slightly, same goes with the valleys. Then look to the inside of the HYVO chain and you will see the same which in effect gives a more refined fit, but it doesn't end there...take your "normal" chain and look "inside" it and curve it as if it was running around a 23t sprocket and what do you see? All the plates that make up a link become misaligned quite noticeably...this creates a "pinching" effect on the smaller top sprockets, which in turn creates drag and premature wear... Just look at any top sprocket for evidence of the individual link marks "biting" the teeth, they will be there...skidoo has known this for years and use larger diameter sprockets to gain this efficiency back...but it's a catch 22 because now they've created more rotating mass. The HYVO chain is more efficient because with it's rounded edges keeps from pinching down to tighter diameters and since Polaris 3/4 bottom sprockets are not solid steel (they have holes in them to lighten them) you get the best of both worlds...larger diameter with less rotating mass...now just for a little proof in the pudding...if I take a 2000ft run with 24/40 gearing, I run 114.7mph and I shift completely out...I've done this so many times that my sled will not deviate even 1/10 of a mph... It's always 114.7...now if I change absolutely nothing except to change to 21/35 "normal" gears and chain I'm down to 107...the math says that those are identical gear ratios, so it's a shining example of the loss in efficiency and the clutches can't shift out in the same distance...long winded I know, but I hope it helps
Before you cut your heads, a word of warning...once you take the "meat" away it can't be put back and the expense of replacing pistons and possibly cylinders may be worth a set of thunderdomes...Storms are notorious for inconsistent swish because of inconsistent gaskets...so if you do happen to smoke something, your next gasket set may be slightly thinner and bring you tighter than .065" so my advice would be to leave a margin of error ;)
Also I am curious what year your "worm" is
If you can afford it...I would suggest a Legend TrailDominator kit for it...you will not be dissappointed I guarantee it...as a Polaris factory trained mechanic for close to 20 years...I have the utmost respect for Mark Zaic and his products at Legend, we speak quite frequently through email
Keep me posted on your progress and I'll help anyway I can
Yellowstorm, the stock gearing from 93-95 was 23/37, after that I'd have to look it up in my books
-30C this morning...guess I'm gonna twirl some wrenches in the shop till the weather breaks
Did I miss something? LOL
What new motor?
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 24th 2009 at 8:17 AM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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Quote originally posted by 128mphSTORM
Did I miss something? LOL
What new motor?
The "new motor" is my 95' Storm motor that I just got back from HTG about a month ago. It just has their Hot Trail Porting and machined heads. Then it was bored .040" over and renicisiled. It has Wiseco ultra lite pistons that HTG teflon coated. Then on the intake side it has Boysen reeds and bored 39.5mm carbs. For exhaust it has PSI Modblasters.
It would be really interesting to see what it has for squish. I might have to check that out.
As for the Legend Thunderdomes. I checked it out before I sent my motor to HTG. If I remember right it was like $450 just for the heads. I also talked to Aaen and PSI, but I think I made the right decision to go with HTG. I was very happy with them and even happier every time I pull the trigger on it.
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January 24th 2009 at 10:56 AM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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glad you like it...I met Mr Shuping years ago up here during early season testing. Would have been back in 92-93 when the XLT was just launched. He and a couple of his " minions" were doing some R&D with a turbo fitted XLT and a couple other sleds...one being a 750 Storm as it was new also. They had a full race shop equipped trailer on the lake. Never saw so many burned down engines at one place at one time in my life LOL ...but that's R&D I guess
I believe the entire trail dominator kit is about $1000 for a Storm, my co-owner has his Storm kitted with one and I'm pretty sure that's what he paid. I also put one to work in my xc700. Cost for the twin was $800. The nice thing about it is the ability to change the "A" domes to higher compression "B" domes if purchased seperately to dragrace or for higher altitude or even "C" domes with race gas or extreme altitude. All seal with o-rings so it also does away with head gaskets... Kinda cool if you ask me
But bottom line is...it's your hard earned money, so long as you're happy with what you got in return for it...then that's what counts
ENJOY ;)
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 24th 2009 at 12:13 PM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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What all is included with the Trail Dominator Kit?
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January 24th 2009 at 12:38 PM
[ Modified January 24th 2009 at 12:43 PM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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You send your stock heads, stripped down carb bodies, and reed cages...Mark will then CNC machine the head to accept the "ThunderDome2" combustion chambers, he bores the carb to his specs, which could be taper boring for the Storm...I'm not sure which models get tapered and which are straight bored, and he machines the reed cage which increases velocity at the tips...he returns them with a set of his reeds...you then get complete clutching for aggresive trail and lake race set ups...all instructions on install and setup and of course his backing for his product which means he's always there for help or problems if needed Check him out at www.legendperformance.com
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 24th 2009 at 10:06 PM
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PAStorm
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 5th 2008
Location: mohnton, PA, USA
Current Sled: 93 Storm
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My storm is a 93, after a failed rod bearing I had the crank rebuilt, and added 800 cylinders. I was told they were 95's , at the time I did not know about the upgraded nicisil cylinders. The heads are 800, I dont know the year. Milled the 750 case to make the 800 cylinders fit. I added PSI pipes, did the cooling upgrades they recomended and run there clutching.Clutch kit has PSI blue primary, looks like stock blue secondary and 10-60 weights, I think the helix is a 46/34 but I am just going from memory and could be wrong. I vented the carbs to the air box and use pSI's jetting specks for the 94 storm on the mains but went back to the 750 needles and needle jets after some testing. My older v-force reeds did away with the balance tube but I picked up a set of delta 2's and modified a set of factory boots to put it back on . With only 50 miles on the fresh top end I have only 100 psi on each cylinder, the reason I am looking into the milled heads. The stock 750 with 5,000 miles had 120 on all three befor it came apart. PSI recomends the 23/35 they claim both better acceleration and speed. To me It just seems to be geared to high to trail ride, I am constantly on and off the throttle at low speeds.
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January 25th 2009 at 9:19 PM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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Well I played with clutching alot this weekend. I was running a Almond/Red primary with 10/60 weights. In the secondary I had a 44/36 with a silver spring. Well after testing I found that the sled really likes lighter weights and a Team roller clutch. I put in 10/56 weights with the same Almond/Red spring. The secondary is a team roller with a 52/42 helix.
It is so responsive with this setup! It is a blast on the trail! I was doing my testing against a very well set up ZR 900. I was beating him off the start and I just kept pulling away from him.
I think it could get better with a more aggressive helix or a softer secondary spring. Also maybe some taller gearing would make it pull a little harder. The testing and tuning never ends.
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January 25th 2009 at 9:46 PM
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PAStorm
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 5th 2008
Location: mohnton, PA, USA
Current Sled: 93 Storm
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I tried the 23/39 combo but it won't fit without a longer chain. Yellowstorm, It would be interesting to see how the 23/35's or the 24/40 128mphstorm runs would work on your sled. 128mphStorm, whats the link count you run to fit the 24/40? Can the longer chain be looked up from another stock sled? All the sprockets I have have the rounded tooth and valley, maybe I already have the hyvo style chain? Thanks to all you guys for sharing your info.
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January 26th 2009 at 10:34 AM
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BattleStorm
New Member
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91 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 19th 2008
Current Sled: XCR 800, Storm
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Here is what I have found with gearing in my testing, racing, and watching. Gear high for speed runs on ice or extremely hard packed snow. You will run a higher mph with the taller gear. Just bought some 25/39 gear for my XCR, for speed runs. Now for everything else gear low and the sled will be quicker unless you are traction limited. Taller gear will give you more traction because there is less torque going to the track. If traction is equal, it doesn’t matter what surface your racing on the lower gear will be allot quicker. I raced a 220hp XCR with my 160hp XCR, his had a 1.25 Ripsaw track with 96 studs and 25/39 gear. Mine had a 1inch Hacksaw track with 192studs and 22/40 gear. We were racing on packed snow and loose snow. It took him around a 1,000ft before he could get by me. Needless to say his sled is now getting geared lower. At the XCR Shoot out, the two quickest XCR’s were running 22/40 gear and we dominated every thing other then 200+ hp sleds.
yellowstorm800: You should have better responce with the lighter weights and the roller clutch for sure but drag racers never use the roller, they say a button is quicker/faster ??
2000 XCR 800
1994 Storm
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January 26th 2009 at 6:19 PM
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yellowstorm800
Junior Member
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263 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: August 23rd 2008
Location: Allenton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: Edge/XCR
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Quote originally posted by BattleStorm
yellowstorm800: You should have better responce with the lighter weights and the roller clutch for sure but drag racers never use the roller, they say a button is quicker/faster ??
Yes I was always told the same thing about the roller clutch but that is why we did the testing against the ZR900 before and after. Every run was close but I was pulling away from the ZR every time. The roller feels better in every range except i'm not quite sure about the top end yet. I don't think it pulls quite as hard up top as the button clutch but I haven't got to a lake to try yet. But that is where I think the taller gears will help me.
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January 26th 2009 at 10:21 PM
[ Modified January 26th 2009 at 10:36 PM
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128mphSTORM
Starting Member
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11 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 12th 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
2008-2009 Miles: 455
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the reason the roller clutch is quicker is because of it's sensitivity to backshifting which will also mean anything on the track when speedrunning that creates slight resistance or drag will cause a slight backshift and prevention from from full shiftout...that's why we prefer button clutches for racing other than snocross
PAStorm, I doubt you are running HYVO gears as it would require a 98 or newer jackshaft with 15 splines...Take a count next time you have your top gear off, and you probably have that collar/spacer that sits between the bearing and top sprocket where as the HYVO top sprocket has that spacer as part of the sprocket...hope that helps
4 of us went splits on a new radar gun and laptop that we farted with yesterday...amazing piece of equipment. Gives us acceleration graphs and time vs. distance graphs and a ton of other stuff we haven't got to play much with yet...but after a couple gear changes in my Mod sled I can see it's going to be an invaluable tool for tuning...I'll keep ya posted if interested
Keep one eye on the tach, and the other eye on the track
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January 26th 2009 at 11:53 PM
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PAStorm
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 5th 2008
Location: mohnton, PA, USA
Current Sled: 93 Storm
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I know I still have the stock 13 spline upper shaft. Since the 23\39 will not fit without a longer chain I am going to put the 21/39 in and give it a try, its easy enough to change.
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January 27th 2009 at 8:25 AM
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bgbytor800
Starting Member
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28 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 28th 2008
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WOW Great Info guys!!
As mentioned I have 1996 Storm and was wondering if power band or thoughts on sweet spot. What I have read is 8000 I currently run 10-62 and still pull 8400
Seems like it pulls hard then lays back a bit at 80-90 mph 8400 rpm..
I am all stock pipes porting ect..
Thanks
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