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1998 RXL triple won't start
- No Fuel
started by trigger96
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November 17th 2008 at 9:31 AM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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I have a 1998 Polaris 650 triple, EFI. Two years ago I started it in November and it ran fine. I went back out in December and it wouldn't start. I've had it in storage for the last couple of years and I have it in my shop now. I figured that it was fuel related, so I took off the air box and pulled the fueil filter. There is not fuel in the line, and yes, I did syphoned out the old fuel and replaced it, but that is not the issue as there is no fuel.
When I turn the key, I can hear the normal sound of the injectors kicking in, (Brand New Battery). That said, there is no fuel. I was going to try and replace the fuel pump, but after seeing the godaweful location of that thing, I want to check and see if there is anything else it can be. I have not checked the relays yet, It does not have an electric start, but when I turn the key all the way to the start position, I can hear a relay click. I have read a few of the other posts about checking the wires behind the switch and the fuse links between them. I will chech the hose in the tank and make sure that is OK. I guess what I am going to do next is check the box and see if any codes are showing up, check the wiring behind the switch, and check the relays as well as the hose in the tank.
My question right now is this.
Does anybody have a wiring diagram for a 1998 RXL?
Where are the relays located?
Where does the fuel leave the tank, where is the hose, top, bottom etc...
Any other things I should check first? When I put gas in the throttle body, it would fire for a second, then die.
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November 17th 2008 at 9:35 AM
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tdgbigfoot
Certified sledaholic
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1277 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: September 12th 2008
Location: Albany, Vermont, USA
Current Sled: 99 SKS 700, 96 Mach Z 780
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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I just replaced my fuel pump and filter on my 86 indy trail, and it's still being fussy and not starting.
Good idea to check into everything else first
2000 Indy Trail Touring 550, 1999 Indy SKS 700, 1996 Mach Z 780, 1994 Wildcat 700, 1991 Formula Plus, 1990 Safari LX, 1989 Indy 400, 1988 Tundra Skandic, 1987 Citation, 1986 Indy Trail 488, 198? Bravo
1969 Corvette 350
2000 Cheroekee - 4 1/2" lift, & other goodies
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November 17th 2008 at 10:31 AM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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First check the fuse links behind the ignition switch for corrosion. If one of them is corroded (a common problem) there will be no power to the fuel pump relay.
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November 17th 2008 at 10:38 AM
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arcticcatf5
Junior
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537 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: April 13th 2007
Location: Boston, NY, USA
Current Sled: 2003 F5 Sno-Pro
2008-2009 Miles: None
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did you turn the fuel off? by any means
“Love is like racing across the frozen tundra on a snowmobile which flips over, trapping you underneath. At night, the ice-weasels come.”
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November 17th 2008 at 10:45 AM
[ Modified November 17th 2008 at 10:46 AM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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No, I never turn the fuel off, don't even know where the shutoff valve is. Its one of those things where it ran, then it didn't, then I got busy, and I never took out of storage. Now its out and I have some time to work on it. MrH, I will check teh connections, I have been reading your previous answers to posts, I'll check that, where are the relays located????
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November 17th 2008 at 11:05 AM
[ Modified November 17th 2008 at 11:05 AM
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GotMud
Triple Trader
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2467 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
Location: Bloomingdale, MI, USA
Current Sled: 700 switchback
2008-2009 Miles: 1250
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Bolted right in front of the right footwell.
When hell freezes over I'll ride there too!!
Quote originally posted by MX86
"Gee that can sounds nice, bet ya he soaked it in water and then baked it"
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November 17th 2008 at 12:10 PM
[ Modified November 17th 2008 at 12:11 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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Below the ignition switch, inside the hood?
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November 17th 2008 at 12:30 PM
[ Modified November 17th 2008 at 12:34 PM
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71rdrnr
New Member
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59 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: January 18th 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Current Sled: 1991 polaris RXL 650
2008-2009 Miles: 30
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Quote originally posted by trigger96
I have a 1998 Polaris 650 triple, EFI. Two years ago I started it in November and it ran fine. I went back out in December and it wouldn't start. I've had it in storage for the last couple of years and I have it in my shop now. I figured that it was fuel related, so I took off the air box and pulled the fueil filter. There is not fuel in the line, and yes, I did syphoned out the old fuel and replaced it, but that is not the issue as there is no fuel.
When I turn the key, I can hear the normal sound of the injectors kicking in, (Brand New Battery). That said, there is no fuel. I was going to try and replace the fuel pump, but after seeing the godaweful location of that thing, I want to check and see if there is anything else it can be. I have not checked the relays yet, It does not have an electric start, but when I turn the key all the way to the start position, I can hear a relay click. I have read a few of the other posts about checking the wires behind the switch and the fuse links between them. I will chech the hose in the tank and make sure that is OK. I guess what I am going to do next is check the box and see if any codes are showing up, check the wiring behind the switch, and check the relays as well as the hose in the tank.
My question right now is this.
Does anybody have a wiring diagram for a 1998 RXL?
Where are the relays located?
Where does the fuel leave the tank, where is the hose, top, bottom etc...
Any other things I should check first? When I put gas in the throttle body, it would fire for a second, then die.
You should hear the fuel pump run for about 5 seconds to prime the system. The pick up line is about half way up the tank, last year mine was rotted from sitting (I guess) and I would get no fuel. Also Yes the godaweful location of the fuel pump is a big P.I.T.A. but I had my son do it in about 30 minutes, (small hands) LOL 
there is also 2 fuel filters one before the pump and one before the fuel rail, may be "T" in a fuel pressure guage just before the rail. You need to have around 36psi.
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November 17th 2008 at 1:05 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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I am getting absolutely no fuel, so the pressure will be zero (LOL). I can hear the buzz when the key is turned, I always thought this was the fuel pump, but I'm still not getting any fuel. If I can hear the buzz, does that mean that the pump is trying to work and I should look for some other reason that there is no fuel coming from the pump? I guess I need to know if the buzz that I always hear is the fuel pump trying to prime. It sounds the same as it did when it ran, only it won't start.
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November 17th 2008 at 2:32 PM
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71rdrnr
New Member
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59 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 18th 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Current Sled: 1991 polaris RXL 650
2008-2009 Miles: 30
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How much fuel is in the tank?
If it's low I would shine a light and maybe a mirror to look for the pick up,make sure that it's not rotted or the screen's not plugged.
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November 17th 2008 at 3:12 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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I syphoned out the old gas and put probably 2 gallons in. It only has a quarter tank in it. If I hear the buzz, is the pump running? Will it run and not pump?
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November 17th 2008 at 4:07 PM
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theword
Junior Member
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134 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 8th 2007
Location: Spring Lake Park, MN, USA
Current Sled: 1996 Polaris Ultra SKS
2008-2009 Miles: 425
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There is no fuel shut off on a RXL. The bottom line is a fuel line for the fuel pump. There should be a trip for the fuel pump. It is a small black rubber button just under the key. Turn the key on and tap the button 6-10 times fast and then the fuel pump should start running. My dad replaced the fuel filter and it was round $40 or so to replace it. Now there is not very much to this system to find the issue. One way to find if there is fuel going to fuel pump. Take the line off the fuel pump and see if there is any fuel coming out of the fuel tank. Try this things before you get in to ripping your hair out.
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November 17th 2008 at 4:15 PM
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71rdrnr
New Member
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59 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 18th 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Current Sled: 1991 polaris RXL 650
2008-2009 Miles: 30
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Quote originally posted by trigger96
I syphoned out the old gas and put probably 2 gallons in. It only has a quarter tank in it. If I hear the buzz, is the pump running? Will it run and not pump?
The buzz could be the pump seized and not pumping or running dry. did you look in the tank for the pick up line? You may have to take it out.
With my pump I had my son take it out, like I said earler, and applied the power in reverse while in gas and tapped the pump and it broke loose and has been good ever since.
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November 17th 2008 at 5:31 PM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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Quote originally posted by theword
There is no fuel shut off on a RXL. The bottom line is a fuel line for the fuel pump. There should be a trip for the fuel pump. It is a small black rubber button just under the key. Turn the key on and tap the button 6-10 times fast and then the fuel pump should start running. My dad replaced the fuel filter and it was round $40 or so to replace it. Now there is not very much to this system to find the issue. One way to find if there is fuel going to fuel pump. Take the line off the fuel pump and see if there is any fuel coming out of the fuel tank. Try this things before you get in to ripping your hair out.
Ummm.... that switch is not a fuel pump "trip" it is an enrichment switch. When you pressed it it would momentarily cut the power to the EFI and the SSO relays forcing the ECU to reset it's internal warmup timer. The ECU would then supply fuel as if the engine was just started from stone cold. There were some drivaway drivability issues when the engine was partially warmed up that this switch was supposed to address. Not all RXL's had this switch. The fuel pump is programmed to run for a couple of seconds whenever the ECU is "powered up" after the SSO relay has timed out so a by product of pressing this switch is the fuel pump may cycle. Pressing this switch 6 to 10 times fast is probably not good for the ECU. You can get the metal fuel filter from an auto supply WAAAAY cheaper than from Polaris. The plastic fuel filter should also not be overlooked. 71rdrnr mentioned the location of these filters in an earlier post. As for the fuel pump you need to test and see if there is power getting to it. Check for power at the purple wire coming out of the blue relay whenever you pull the cord. The purple wire is the fuel pump feed wire. If you have power there each time you try to start then the computer and all the relays are funcioning correctly and "trying" to activate the pump. That leaves the wire to the pump the ground to the pump or the pump itself causing your problems. Let us know what yo find out .
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November 17th 2008 at 7:59 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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Well, I'm glad I didn't pull the motor yet. I found the relays tonight, but never had a chance to check them out. I'll try and get a look at them soon. When I pull the cord, I can hear the fuel pump buzzing. I don't think any fuel is getting to the pump. Where is the plastic filter. I have the big metal one off already and will change it when I put it back together. I would think if the relay was out, that I wouldn't heare the pump cycle, but I'll check for power at the pump anyway. I can't even see the fuel line that is coming from the tank or the other filter. Any help in that regard would help. I suppose I should check and see if there is fuel getting to the pump first but man, that line looks buried.
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November 17th 2008 at 8:49 PM
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FuelieRXL
1991 Indy 400
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189 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 27th 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Current Sled: 1996 RXL & 1991 Indy 400
2008-2009 Miles: 370 each
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Check the fuel line in the tank. Disconnect the fuel line from the fuel filter and try to siphon fuel directly from the line. The pump won't interfere with the fuel flow by siphoning in the direction of flow. If you get fuel, the pump maybe bad. If you don't get fuel, the line in the tank may have become disconnected, or may have split. If you or someone attempts to siphon gas out of the tank through the filler neck, you can dislodge the fuel line.
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November 17th 2008 at 9:02 PM
[ Modified November 17th 2008 at 9:20 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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Fuelie, thanks, I'll try that, I have an old boat hose with a primer bulb that works great for siphoning. I'll try that, it will be much easier than trying to pull off the hose coming from the tank to the pump. That think looks buried. Still want to know what the trick is to getting out the pump and changing the second, plastic filter.
Edit: Did a quick check with the primer bulb. Couldn't get any fuel to come out through the pump. Didn't have a good way to connect the two lines so I had to use the big metal fuel filter. I'll give a little better try tomorrow when I can find a normal connector, but the preliminary results indicate no fuel is getting from the tank to the pump. That is why I am hearing the pump turn on and prime the system, but no fuel. So if that is the case, what is my next step. Where do I look for the hose in the tank, and how on earth do I find the line that goes from the tank to the fuel pump.
mrHolmquist, are we on the right track?
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November 18th 2008 at 4:06 AM
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71rdrnr
New Member
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59 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 18th 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Current Sled: 1991 polaris RXL 650
2008-2009 Miles: 30
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Quote originally posted by trigger96
Fuelie, thanks, I'll try that, I have an old boat hose with a primer bulb that works great for siphoning. I'll try that, it will be much easier than trying to pull off the hose coming from the tank to the pump. That think looks buried. Still want to know what the trick is to getting out the pump and changing the second, plastic filter.
Edit: Did a quick check with the primer bulb. Couldn't get any fuel to come out through the pump. Didn't have a good way to connect the two lines so I had to use the big metal fuel filter. I'll give a little better try tomorrow when I can find a normal connector, but the preliminary results indicate no fuel is getting from the tank to the pump. That is why I am hearing the pump turn on and prime the system, but no fuel. So if that is the case, what is my next step. Where do I look for the hose in the tank, and how on earth do I find the line that goes from the tank to the fuel pump.
mrHolmquist, are we on the right track?
You should be able to see the fuel lines by the stearing post with the air box out. 3 lines a small vent line at the top, and 2. big lines about half way up the tank. Ones the return line from the pessure by pass and the other goes to the pump. The plastic fillter, you can find it by following the fuel line on the clutch side fuel rail back down under the throttle bodies. again not the simplest thing to get at.
Look in the tank through the filler neck for the pick up line, with only 2 gallons of gas you should be able to see it. make sure it's connected to the front of the tank about half way up.
Sounds like were getting closer to getting it running.
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November 18th 2008 at 8:01 AM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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I hope so. I have a 1.5 year old that will love to go on it this winter.
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November 18th 2008 at 1:12 PM
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FuelieRXL
1991 Indy 400
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189 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 27th 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Current Sled: 1996 RXL & 1991 Indy 400
2008-2009 Miles: 370 each
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Quote originally posted by trigger96
Fuelie, thanks, I'll try that, I have an old boat hose with a primer bulb that works great for siphoning. I'll try that, it will be much easier than trying to pull off the hose coming from the tank to the pump. That think looks buried. Still want to know what the trick is to getting out the pump and changing the second, plastic filter.
Edit: Did a quick check with the primer bulb. Couldn't get any fuel to come out through the pump. Didn't have a good way to connect the two lines so I had to use the big metal fuel filter. I'll give a little better try tomorrow when I can find a normal connector, but the preliminary results indicate no fuel is getting from the tank to the pump. That is why I am hearing the pump turn on and prime the system, but no fuel. So if that is the case, what is my next step. Where do I look for the hose in the tank, and how on earth do I find the line that goes from the tank to the fuel pump.
mrHolmquist, are we on the right track?
When you turn on the key with the kill switch in the run position, the fuel pump turns on to pressurize the system prior to starting. The fuel pump runs for about 5 seconds to get the correct pressure to the fuel rail. The pressure regulator then ensures the correct fuel pressure is supplied to the injectors.
What happens with the fuel line disconnected at the filter and you turn on the key? If no fuel comes out, unscrew the gas cap and try it again. Now what happens?
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November 18th 2008 at 2:03 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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Thanks, I'll try that too. I have to hook all the electrical plugs back up to get the pump to turn back on, then I'll try it again. I think we are at least getting close to diagnosing the problem.
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November 18th 2008 at 3:08 PM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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Quote originally posted by trigger96
Fuelie, thanks, I'll try that, I have an old boat hose with a primer bulb that works great for siphoning. I'll try that, it will be much easier than trying to pull off the hose coming from the tank to the pump. That think looks buried. Still want to know what the trick is to getting out the pump and changing the second, plastic filter.
Edit: Did a quick check with the primer bulb. Couldn't get any fuel to come out through the pump. Didn't have a good way to connect the two lines so I had to use the big metal fuel filter. I'll give a little better try tomorrow when I can find a normal connector, but the preliminary results indicate no fuel is getting from the tank to the pump. That is why I am hearing the pump turn on and prime the system, but no fuel. So if that is the case, what is my next step. Where do I look for the hose in the tank, and how on earth do I find the line that goes from the tank to the fuel pump.
mrHolmquist, are we on the right track?
Yes , like the other members I believe you are on the right track!!!
If the fuel pump is running and there is no fuel pressure it must be an issue with a supply line or filter. I sent a picture to point out the small plastic fuel filter from the Polaris parts diagram. The plastic fuel filter is part # 35
If you just cannot access the line or filter another option is to remove the seat and integral fuel tank. There are two bolts (which can corrode quite bad and be hard to take out sometimes) under the rear of the tunnel behind the snow flap. Removing these two bolts and unhooking the spring loaded cable at the front of the tank will release the tank and seat. Theere is a plug for the tail light under the seat and if you slide it back you will find everything much easier to get at. While the tank is off you can dump out all the remaining old gas and rinse it. The only thing is if you break either of the bolts at the back you will have to remove some of the staples from the seat cover and pull it back to access the inside of the taillight housing to replace the broken bolt.
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November 18th 2008 at 4:35 PM
[ Modified November 18th 2008 at 4:53 PM
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A. never heard of a 98 RXL
B. if sled was stored outdoors un covered - lots of potential electrical issues but:
1. Walmart usually has fine micron fuel filter on the shelf
2. Replace circuit breaker part 17 in attached diagram, they trip and turn off fuel pump at slightest draw. Pep boys 15 amp cb = $5
3. Check dropping resistor condition also, these parts in this location go unnoticed and tend to have common corrosion problems.
I bet electrical item 2 before any fuel problem.
No Brain No Pain
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November 18th 2008 at 6:09 PM
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mrholmquist
Junior Member
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500 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2003
Location: cobourg, on, Canada
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Quote originally posted by Thinksno
A. never heard of a 98 RXL
B. if sled was stored outdoors un covered - lots of potential electrical issues but:
1. Walmart usually has fine micron fuel filter on the shelf
2. Replace circuit breaker part 17 in attached diagram, they trip and turn off fuel pump at slightest draw. Pep boys 15 amp cb = $5
3. Check dropping resistor condition also, these parts in this location go unnoticed and tend to have common corrosion problems.
I bet electrical item 2 before any fuel problem.
Ya we sorta figured he meant 97 RXL. I agree with you that the breaker and several other connection points could be the problem but he sorta thinks he can hear the pump running. Earlier I asked him to check the power feed to the pump and I assumed it was ok cause he didn't say different. That would also mean the breaker was ok , of course that is if he is actually hearing the pump run and or he did check for and got power on the purple wire from the relay . If not you could well be right
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November 18th 2008 at 8:29 PM
[ Modified November 18th 2008 at 8:48 PM
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trigger96
Starting Member
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24 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2005
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Checked it out tonight, there looks to be a brass nipple and hose clamp, but no hose inside the tank. I really wish I would have started there, but I guess that everything I have removed so far would have had to come off anyway. I can't believe that I didn't notice the two fuel lines coming from the gas tank, they are so obvious once I looked there. Also, the plastic filter will be a pain but doable, it was covered in smut and grease so I didn't recognize it until I found the line. I removed the spring loaced cable and peeled back the front cover off the tank. I'll try and remove the seat and tank so I can dump the gas and get the rotted hose out of the tank. Now, how do I replace the line when its in the tank. Will the brass hose fitting come out if I take off the nut, or is it threaded right into the tank? I'll go to the diagrams of the seat and tank from the above sticky, but any tips would be appreciated. Its getting closer to running, I can feel it.
By the way, yes it is a 1997, bought in 1998. It has always been stored inside, hopefully those bolts holding the seat down won't be that hard to get at.... I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks in advance.
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