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Why is my motor filling with gas!!!???
started by Slednek
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December 10th 2008 at 7:22 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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So I started getting the sled ready a few weeks ago. Did a bunch of stuff, sliders, runners, plugs, etc.
Fired it up for the first time last night. She started fine, ran fine, I let it get hot, gave er a few good snaps, smiled from ear to ear, and went inside to watch a movie. Today I get home from work and dicided to try and figure out why the thumb warmer wasn't working, but it wouldn't pull over. I yanked and yanked but it wouldn't budge so I got really worried. I pulled the plugs out and gave it a yank and gas shot out the holes. I took one of the crankcase plugs out and i swear there must have been half a gallon of gas in there. I know the throtle cable isn't stuck 'cause I took it right off of the throttle. What could cause this?
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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December 10th 2008 at 7:24 PM
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xcr440
Sundowners Trail Coordinator
xcr440 is drinking high lifes polishing the sleds. Who wants to help....
Updated 41 minutes ago
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12578 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: February 1st 2003
Location: St.Germain/Edgerton, Wisconsin, USA
Current Sled: 03prox700/97xcr440
2008-2009 Miles: 610
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float stcuk down on one of the carbs.
a good beer drinker isnt a picky beer drinker
Loggers.... Working their ass off so you can wipe yours!
"Steep ground is when your cutting a notch and notice a mountain goat looking at you like you are crazy." - Hexan
woodbooga: (WOOD-boog-ah), n. regional dialect, common to areas of New Hampshire and Maine including the towns of Ossipee, Alton, Farmington, Acton, and Lebanon; one who attempts to obtain free firewood to fuel woodburning appliances in an effort to mitigate expenses related to home heating with fossil fuels. Frequently used as a term of derision by non-woodburners who mock the presence of loose bark and other wood waste in the beds of their pickup trucks.
2003 Pro x 700 almond/blue,10-66 black/red team 719 T-flow, 440 mains
1997 xcr440 my clutch kit, 380 mains,T-flow
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December 10th 2008 at 7:31 PM
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Ultra680
Senior Member
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2235 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: June 5th 2004
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere, USA
Current Sled: 2000 XCR 800
2008-2009 Miles: 1300
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Need to clean your carbs.
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December 10th 2008 at 7:34 PM
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neu0006
Junior Member
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275 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 28th 2004
Location: sask, Canada
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You need to replace your needles and seats.Buy the vitron tipped needles a little more money but well worth it.Bet your sled was slobbering on bottom end too.
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December 10th 2008 at 8:23 PM
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obee
Average Member
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763 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: May 22nd 2006
Location: Orillia, On, Canada
Current Sled: 1997 Polaris Xcr 440
2008-2009 Miles: 2600
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Floats are sticking. Give your carbs a good cleaning. Also drain any gas that may have entered the exhaust.
Quote originally posted by BRP-4-LIFE
Before I continue, if I don't keep this sled for the whole season, I promise to never sign on to Snowmobile Fanatics again.
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December 10th 2008 at 8:39 PM
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also check the pulse line from the fuel pump to the crank case, make sure gas isnt dripping out of there.
nothing goes like 3 holes!!
Aaen Performance!!!!
High performance engineering
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December 10th 2008 at 8:43 PM
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proxsledhead
if it aint broke dont fix it!
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221 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 25th 2008
Location: Kotzebue, Alaska, USA
Current Sled: MXZX 440 soon to be 700
2008-2009 Miles: 1865
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my buddys was doing this last night, we had to clean out the diaphram on the fuel pump and change the impulse line..i would check there first.
FreeWill, Freeride, Freestyle
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December 10th 2008 at 9:22 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Thanks for the responses guys. I'll get back at er tomorrow after work and let you know what I find
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December 12th 2008 at 5:12 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Ok, so I cleaned the carbs, for the second time since I got the machine out of storage. Its still doing the same thing. I left the crankcase plug out and it drips once about every five seconds. I took the fuel lines off of the fuel pump one at a time. When I took the line off for the one carb nothing came out of the fuel pump. When I took the line off for the other carb there was gas running out of the fuel pump outlet. Should that happen? It doesn't seem right to me. I mean, if the gas is allowed to run freely from the tank to the carbs it will just push its way past the needle and seat, if the gas in the tank is higher than the carbs, right?
I took the fuel pump right out and split it. The only thing that seems out of the ordinary to me is that the diaphram on the impulse side is a little rippled, but no holes anywhere. The gaskets seem fine too. Any ideas???
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December 12th 2008 at 7:23 PM
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Sledrider2
Starting Member
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6 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 12th 2008
Location: Catawissa, Pa
Current Sled: 2004 800 XC SP
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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I had the same problem on my 2004. I took the carbs apart took out the plastic floats and bent the tabs, very slightly, that the needle rides on to acheive more pressure on the needle. I did that by heating the plastic tab very gently with a heat gun. Be very careful when you heat the tab as I felt I was right on the edge of melting it to the point that it would be ruined. If I ever need to do this again I think I will try my wifes hair dryer instead, as the heat gun may have been overkill. Anyway this fixed my leaking fuel problem.
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December 13th 2008 at 6:08 AM
[ Modified December 13th 2008 at 6:10 AM
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Racing666
Junior Member
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498 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 16th 2006
Current Sled: 99 Vmax SX 600 Triple
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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A rippled diaphragm will leak fuel. I would replace them both or replace the whole fuel pump.
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December 13th 2008 at 6:03 PM
[ Modified December 13th 2008 at 6:05 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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I fixed it!!! I traced the leaking fuel to the one carb. I cleaned it again but it was still doing the same thing. I took them both apart and switched the floats and needle from one carb to the other. That made the other carb leak. I put the floats in a pail of water to check for holes. Nothing, thjey were good. So I went to the dealer to buy a new needle (can't get the seat 'cause its part of the carb body). They only had a used one but the guy said it was good and I trust him 'cause he's a good guy. I took them both apart again and replaced the needle. I also slightly bent the tab that holds the needle to put a little more presure on it (did this on both carbs). I put it all back together and what do ya know, no leak. Pulled it over like 20 or 30 times with the plugs out and not a drop of gas came out of either carb. Then I ran it for as good 15 mins on the stand. It ran awesome and would idle perfect all day. Man am I releived! Now to find some snow, lol.
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December 13th 2008 at 6:49 PM
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dtmmil
Senior Member
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3182 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 27th 2007
Location: Hawley, MN, USA
Current Sled: 99 xc700
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What little tab did you bend, you may have adjusted your float height to a lower setting. the needles are spring loaded and when they are in good shape they have more than enough pressure to seat. One thing I also like to do is get a q-tip and dip it in some polish of some sort and twirl it in the seat, to make sure the seat is good and clean.
Clutched
Jetted, boyesen reed petals, boost bottle, 98xc carbs slides, 1371 needles, gutted air box
Homeade 7 1/2" riser
Homeade suspension drop brackets
shortened and blackened windshield
powermadd handguards
144 conversion, tracks usa extensions, custom tunnel extension and rear bumper, IQ flap, 1.25" track
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December 13th 2008 at 7:55 PM
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whitexc
Average Member
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946 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 19th 2006
Location: Pendleton, NY, USA
Current Sled: XC
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Any one do the float pin fix on these carbs? A while back I found a thread about the pins that hold the floats having play and possibly causing some issues with these Keihins. A friend and I swapped the pins out with some custom cut drill bits that fit much better and I am not sure if it helped at all but there certainly was slack in the float pins so....
If anyone is interested I could scan the original post as I printed it and am all about the sharing of info.
Sledfreak it is great that you found the issue and got it resolved.
Polaris...it IS the way out!
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December 14th 2008 at 6:39 AM
[ Modified December 14th 2008 at 6:40 AM
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Jerkyking
The voice of Common Sense...
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713 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2007
Location: Saint Ignace, Michigan, USA
Current Sled: 1998 Indy Trail
2008-2009 Miles: 331
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Quote originally posted by Slednek
I fixed it!!! I traced the leaking fuel to the one carb. I cleaned it again but it was still doing the same thing. I took them both apart and switched the floats and needle from one carb to the other. That made the other carb leak. I put the floats in a pail of water to check for holes. Nothing, thjey were good. So I went to the dealer to buy a new needle (can't get the seat 'cause its part of the carb body). They only had a used one but the guy said it was good and I trust him 'cause he's a good guy. I took them both apart again and replaced the needle. I also slightly bent the tab that holds the needle to put a little more presure on it (did this on both carbs). I put it all back together and what do ya know, no leak. Pulled it over like 20 or 30 times with the plugs out and not a drop of gas came out of either carb. Then I ran it for as good 15 mins on the stand. It ran awesome and would idle perfect all day. Man am I releived! Now to find some snow, lol.
Good Job!!!. Its nice doing it yourself. This is why I like this site so much.
1997 Indy Trail Touring
1998 Indy Trail
2007 Honda Rancher ES 4x4
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December 14th 2008 at 6:42 AM
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whitexc
Average Member
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946 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 19th 2006
Location: Pendleton, NY, USA
Current Sled: XC
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Sorry Slednek...I got your handle wrong, nice work.
Polaris...it IS the way out!
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December 14th 2008 at 4:59 PM
[ Modified December 14th 2008 at 5:02 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Quote originally posted by dtmmil
What little tab did you bend, you may have adjusted your float height to a lower setting. the needles are spring loaded and when they are in good shape they have more than enough pressure to seat. One thing I also like to do is get a q-tip and dip it in some polish of some sort and twirl it in the seat, to make sure the seat is good and clean.
Just the little tab that actually holds the needle. I was careful not to mess with the float setting. When I fired it up I ran it at high RPM's and gave it some really good hard snaps. It necer seemed like it was running out of gas so I should be ok. Only a real good ride will tell the truth though so I'm pretty anxious to get out there! Quote originally posted by whitexc
Any one do the float pin fix on these carbs? A while back I found a thread about the pins that hold the floats having play and possibly causing some issues with these Keihins. A friend and I swapped the pins out with some custom cut drill bits that fit much better and I am not sure if it helped at all but there certainly was slack in the float pins so....
If anyone is interested I could scan the original post as I printed it and am all about the sharing of info.
Sledfreak it is great that you found the issue and got it resolved.
Ya the float pin was one of the first things I thought of, but they were good and loose. No chance of the floats sticking. I was stressing pretty good about this for a few days, but yes, it definately feels good to get it fixed. Now, time to RIDE!
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December 16th 2008 at 2:11 PM
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prox420
Whaaaammmpp!!!!
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1487 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: October 4th 2005
Location: Minnetonka, MN, USA
Current Sled: POLARIS
2008-2009 Miles: .01
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Glad this thread was here at this time... My buddies 700 just had the same thing going and this saved me a lot of r/i time forsure!! thanks guys. Now I can get his sled out of my garage!!!
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December 16th 2008 at 3:52 PM
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connor1
Starting Member
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7 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 15th 2008
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sorry to sabatoge your thread, but my xlt has done the same thing,.......but i went for a ride and possibly took out my bottom end bearings.....all the gas in the crankcase washed all the oil off of the bearings. hopefully i caught you before you go riding as i was told that you should run some extra oil in the tank for the first tank to be sure that the crank bearings are oiled. any other thoughts on this theory. i'm still hoping that my bearings are ok??
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December 16th 2008 at 9:42 PM
[ Modified December 16th 2008 at 9:42 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Quote originally posted by connor1
sorry to sabatoge your thread, but my xlt has done the same thing,.......but i went for a ride and possibly took out my bottom end bearings.....all the gas in the crankcase washed all the oil off of the bearings. hopefully i caught you before you go riding as i was told that you should run some extra oil in the tank for the first tank to be sure that the crank bearings are oiled. any other thoughts on this theory. i'm still hoping that my bearings are ok??
Well on my sled the crank bearings are fed individually by the oil pump, which is pumping oil any time the motor is turning. Even if they were bone dry they would almost instantly get oil as soon as the motor fires. I could be wrong, but thats just me thinking logically. I've heard of adding extra oil to the gas tank when you redo the top end, which I did last February. Not sure if enough of the the oil in the gas actually reaches the crank to give any sugnificant benifit. If I were you I wouldn't stress about it, I'm not stressed about mine. Let's RIDE!!!
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December 16th 2008 at 10:27 PM
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dtmmil
Senior Member
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3182 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 27th 2007
Location: Hawley, MN, USA
Current Sled: 99 xc700
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My thought about the oil in the case is the same as connor1, if the bottom end filled with gas it would completely wash away any oil on/in the bearings. It would take a few seconds to get oil back in the bone dry bearings if they sat for any amount of time. Say they sat in the gas, and washed the bearings, the gas evaporates and leaves the bearings dry and they rust, possibility there also. And the tiny little tab that holds the needle is what is adjusted to raise/lower the floats. Are the float pins tight in the carb castings, the two little towers that is? they should be.
Clutched
Jetted, boyesen reed petals, boost bottle, 98xc carbs slides, 1371 needles, gutted air box
Homeade 7 1/2" riser
Homeade suspension drop brackets
shortened and blackened windshield
powermadd handguards
144 conversion, tracks usa extensions, custom tunnel extension and rear bumper, IQ flap, 1.25" track
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December 17th 2008 at 5:03 PM
[ Modified December 17th 2008 at 5:04 PM
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Slednek
Junior Member
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151 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 5th 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Current Sled: '99 xc700sp
2008-2009 Miles: 900
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Quote originally posted by dtmmil
My thought about the oil in the case is the same as connor1, if the bottom end filled with gas it would completely wash away any oil on/in the bearings. It would take a few seconds to get oil back in the bone dry bearings if they sat for any amount of time. Say they sat in the gas, and washed the bearings, the gas evaporates and leaves the bearings dry and they rust, possibility there also. And the tiny little tab that holds the needle is what is adjusted to raise/lower the floats. Are the float pins tight in the carb castings, the two little towers that is? they should be.
I'm trying to figure it out, but I can't see how bending the little tab that holds the needle would do anything to adjust the floats. Also, the float pins on my carbs are not tight, if they were they would be almost imposible to get out. The bowl itself holds them in place. Just to be clear, I have the 39mm Keihins on my sled, maybe yours are different? Just a thought.
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December 17th 2008 at 6:22 PM
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dtmmil
Senior Member
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3182 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 27th 2007
Location: Hawley, MN, USA
Current Sled: 99 xc700
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I have the 39mm keihins also, maybe I am thinking of my mikunis on my old sled, some of them are a semi press fit on one end. If I am also thinking right, the little tab on the float is how you set the float height, if I had my sled here right now I would pull a carb off an look, but by bending the tab you would be increasing/decreasing the pressure that it is putting on the needle, moving the float up and down, if I am wrong someone please tell me, I haven't had my carbs off since last spring.
Clutched
Jetted, boyesen reed petals, boost bottle, 98xc carbs slides, 1371 needles, gutted air box
Homeade 7 1/2" riser
Homeade suspension drop brackets
shortened and blackened windshield
powermadd handguards
144 conversion, tracks usa extensions, custom tunnel extension and rear bumper, IQ flap, 1.25" track
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December 17th 2008 at 8:47 PM
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Sledrider2
Starting Member
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6 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 12th 2008
Location: Catawissa, Pa
Current Sled: 2004 800 XC SP
2008-2009 Miles: 0
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Bending the tab up , lowers the float in the float bowl. Since the needle valve was leaking fuel in the first place due to lack of up pressure, the level of fuel in the float bowl is lowered somewhat. However, since the tab was bent up there is now more pressure put on the needle valve shutting off the flow of fuel until some of the fuel in the float bowl is used. At that time the float drops, opening the needle valve allowing more fuel into the float bowl. There is no need to overthink this fix as it works on many small engines. 
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