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Pathetic
- Big boo!!
started by XCR HYPER TRIPLE
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December 24th 2008 at 10:53 AM
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2002ZR800
Arctic Cat "Ride the Pride!"
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172 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 3rd 2008
Location: Essex Jct, Vermont, USA
Current Sled: 2002 ZR 800
2008-2009 Miles: 1288
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Quote originally posted by XCR HYPER TRIPLE
These results are pathetic period. Yes today's sleds are lighter and more comfortable but as for ET's and MPH they plane old suck! I don't want to be bashing anything but seriously bring it on. I will put my T-Cat and XCR against any of these sleds. I was at my local dealer yesterday and was very impressed with the look of the new white 600 & 800 Dragon. So impressed I almost convinced myself to buy one. I was told with very few mods they were rockets and have hit 108 MPH on snow. Unfortunately I will have to stick with my old dog suspension triple cylinder 800 sled that can still beat the snot out of these new 800's and 1000 cc sleds on the lake and in the 1/4 mile. I guess deep down inside I wish my XCR looked and handled like a new Dragon but also wish Polaris could build a box stock sled that would beat my XCR. But dreams are dreams and we all hope one day they will come true.
Cheers
Aftermarket company D&D showed some of their newest trail and lake racer sleds at the Adirondack Shootout.
Woodgate, N.Y. - AmSnow was back in New York this year as the official media outlet for the Adirondack Shootout. AmSnow started this event 19 years ago and with the help of Jim Czekala of Dynotech and George Taylor, the event has survived through the many years.
For the event, we dyno stock sleds, run them through a 1/4-mile test track, and record their performance. This year at the Adirondack Shootout, AmSnow handed out numerous awards including the Fastest ¼-mile Top Speed in the Stock 600, 800, and Unlimited classes. We also gave the dealers about an hour to try their hand at improving the stock sleds with a quick set-up of their own. We gave out awards for the best Stock Improved (Dealer Prepared) Fastest ¼-mile Top Speed as well in each of the three sled classes.
Bikeman Performance was also on hand with this Cat Crossfire R 1000.
Finally, a Best Average Elapsed Time award was given in each class. The Best Average ET award was determined by averaging the best Stock ET with the best Stock Improved ET that each sled posted. This nullified any motivation for those involved to "de-tune" their stock sleds in order to show big power gains and subsequently "push parts." It was in each participant's best interest to have a good Stock ET and a good Stock Improved ET.
AmSnow put these stockers to the test on Dynotech's dyno just hours before we took them out on the snow and then gave each sled two runs in Stock and Stock Improved form, to try to pull their best times and top speeds. After that, we had well-respected aftermarket companies come show us what their modifications can do to make your sled faster, handle better, and power off the line like an angry gorilla.
In the upcoming February issue of AmSnow we'll have full acceleration results, dyno test numbers, trail mod tests, and lake racer results. Here's a sneak peak at how the stock sleds performed.
Stock 600cc Fastest ¼-mile Top Speed - Yamaha FX Nytro, Speed: 88.75mph
Stock 600cc Fastest Improved Top Speed - Ski-Doo MXZ 1200 4-TEC, Speed: 88.40mph
Stock 600cc Best Average Elapsed Time - Yamaha FX Nytro, Avg. ET: 13.3015sec.
Stock 800cc Fastest ¼-mile Top Speed - Polaris Dragon 800, Speed: 93.94 mph
Stock 800cc Fastest Improved Top Speed - Ski-Doo MXZ 800R. Speed: 97.82 mph
Stock 800cc Best Average Elapsed Time - Arctic Cat Crossfire R 800, Avg. ET: 12.524 sec.
Stock Unlimited Fastest ¼-mile Top Speed - Cat Z1 Turbo, Speed: 96.77mph
Stock Unlimited Fastest Improved Top Speed - Cat Z1 Turbo, Speed: 97.82mph
Stock Unlimited Best Average Elapsed Time - Cat Z1 Turbo, Avg. ET: 12.4605 sec.
Cheers
I agree my 800 does 85 mph with ease all day long and the suspension is exceptional too.
1988 El Tigre' 6000
1993 Prowler
2002 ZR 800 Cross Country Edition
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Site Supporter
Group: Site Supporters
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December 24th 2008 at 11:03 AM
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Garceau
Advanced Member
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1044 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: October 23rd 2005
Location: Mauston, WI
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Quote originally posted by 03Pro-X700
I find it funny that my long tracked, geared down, and trail clutched pro-x 700 ran a 93.2 in 1000 ft last year. Give me an extra 320 feet and i would have had an extra mph easy. I feel bad for the people paying good money for new sleds, and getting whooped up by people with "old school" sleds.
hmmm and I run 98 in 1000ft with trail clutching trail studs and my 300lbs on it...making it what 900lbs? I so wanted to find a light person that I trusted to run it to see if they could break the 100mph.
I had a XC700 when I got this. Not even the same league however that was a non VES sled so there was a big difference.
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December 24th 2008 at 11:18 AM
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MJay
Sledaholic
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6184 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: March 16th 2004
Location: Goose Bay, Newfoundland, Canada
Current Sled: 2006 Arctic Cat M7
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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I dont think its the old engines that made the sleds fast. It was the low to the ground bodies and suspensions. I bet a 800 triple in a IQ wouldnt cross the line any faster than a 800 twin in the same sled with the same power. Sure the old triples might be ok out sitting on the lake or dragstrip, but everywhere else a twin is better.
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December 24th 2008 at 11:26 AM
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Garceau
Advanced Member
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1044 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 23rd 2005
Location: Mauston, WI
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Im never going to get into the twin/triple debate. One I really dont know. Not my thing I came from the 4 stroke ranks racing my entire life. I had both triples and twins riding. None of them were tuned much over a clutch kit so its never my call.
I have seen fast ones in both ranks, however I honestly feel the twin has a limit for reliability in CC
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December 24th 2008 at 11:33 AM
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MJay
Sledaholic
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6184 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 16th 2004
Location: Goose Bay, Newfoundland, Canada
Current Sled: 2006 Arctic Cat M7
2008-2009 Miles: 450
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^^^Theres the problem again, its not all about racing. Racing a straight flat track is only a small aspect of snowmobiling and a sled cant be called inferior simply because it takes longer to cross a line.
If the race was run in 3" of powder, or over medium sized bumps, or uphill, or around some twisties I bet the results would be completely different. Drags are minor, and even though I love running on the dragstrip less than 2 miles away I dont spend much time there and neither do anyone else.
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December 24th 2008 at 11:36 AM
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Garceau
Advanced Member
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1044 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 23rd 2005
Location: Mauston, WI
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Where did I say anything about racing?
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December 24th 2008 at 11:38 AM
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bobp53916
Looking for Sno Pro motor mounts
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890 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: December 14th 2008
Location: Gwinner ND/Waupun WI
Current Sled: 99 ZR600/2000 Sno Pro
2008-2009 Miles: 500+
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Quote originally posted by bob800
you are a real red blooded redneck ****king idiot, or canadian!
Error: File 144894 doesn't exist in gallery!
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December 24th 2008 at 11:39 AM
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Garceau
Advanced Member
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1044 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: October 23rd 2005
Location: Mauston, WI
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About racing snowmobiles anyways?
I mentioned seeing both being fast because this entire topic was about speed of the current sleds.
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December 24th 2008 at 11:41 AM
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Cooked
New Member
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53 Posts 
Group: Members
Member Since: September 21st 2008
Location: Brodhead, WI, USA
Current Sled: 86 Phazer
2008-2009 Miles: 1500
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Quote originally posted by 04Prox2
Around here nobody rides triples anymore so my twin is still fast on the lake....plus it can actually go over bumps without sending your prostate through your nose.
What a visual! 
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December 24th 2008 at 11:46 AM
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fleshwound
Shake n Bake
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243 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: September 24th 2005
Location: toronto, ontario, Canada
Current Sled: 05 Fusion 900
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With my 900 fusion all tuned up, full slp exaust and timbersled intake i can squeeze out 118mph. I also have an xcr 800 which yes is faster but when do i ever run right to that speed not to often. Ill ride my fusion any day over my xcr as i can go faster then most sleds on the lake IN COMFORT. Im not breaking my ass and i can ride trails fast too! Yes xcr's are fast in the straight line but not on the trails. And im not bashing i have an xcr 800
2005 fusion 900
2000 xcr 800
07 ktm sxf 250
Quote originally posted by BRP-4-LIFE
If I don't keep this sled for the whole season, I promise to never sign on to Snowmobile Fanatics again.
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December 24th 2008 at 11:46 AM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 25th 2004
Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
Current Sled: 99xcr 800
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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I own a nice mixture of old classic muscle 96 zrt 600,,96 zrt 800 a 97 ultra spx 92 vmax 4 750,a 99 xcr 800,and a 92 formula plus X,, love them all
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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December 24th 2008 at 12:02 PM
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JONESIE
SLED IS BOTTLE FED
JONESIE Too dam busy for my own good.
Updated Monday at 12:14 PM
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1252 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 8th 2004
Location: winnipeg, manitoba, Canada
Current Sled: 04 700 switchback mod
2008-2009 Miles: 643
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I will say this twin are not better then triples in every respect except on the lake. I ride with Hyper, his xcr get just as good gas mileage as my hopped up 700 twin if not better, his sled handles the trails just as well as my sled except when it come to 3' moguls. He corners just as well the seating postion is more comfortable on his xcr, the sled has about 30mph more topend. To sit and say twins are better then triple except when it comes to topend. Come on I have ridden both for countless miles and there are day i would rather have a triple then a twin.
I will also say this for all the new technology going into sled you would think that they should be able to have higher topend speed as well as keep the trail manners we all expect. kind hard to lay down 12-14k for something slower then my sled especially when i paid 8500 off the showroom floor, and with only improved trail manners as the selling point.
cheers
04 700 switchback clutched, aatacc, slp big air kit, sportech hand gaurds, boyseen reeds, c&a pro xt with 6" carbide, 8" big wheel kit, slp cheater head, full slp pipe setup, black belly pan, walker evans clicker shocks, 1.5 camoplast cross country track, ported cylinder, and boss noss 30-40hp kit.
FOR SALE PM FOR DETAIL
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December 24th 2008 at 12:23 PM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 25th 2004
Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
Current Sled: 99xcr 800
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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also depends what kind of sled you're racing trail riding etc ,in years past i have seen a well tuned kawasaki 440 invader ,smoke a run in the ground newer 600, ,have seen this countless times
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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December 24th 2008 at 1:45 PM
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ripperd
kick@$$
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7425 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: November 7th 2001
Location: Brooklyn Center, MN, USA
Current Sled: 07 Rev 600 mod
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I think they could produce a faster sled if they wanted to. I think they have chosen not to, perhaps as a gentlemens agreement between the manufacturers. No-one has made a lower-slung lake rocket, twin or triple, in the last 6 years.
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December 24th 2008 at 2:11 PM
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stormrider62033
wally
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4729 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 25th 2004
Location: Gillespie, IL, USA
Current Sled: 99xcr 800
2008-2009 Miles: 500
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^^^ i would almost have to say it has to do with production cost ,why build that ,when we can do like the great american way and stick it to ya!!!!
mid Il alway's waiting for snow,moving north(way north)2001 thundercat 99xcr 800 97SPX ULTRA 96 zrt 600&800,92 doo plusX 92 v max 4 750
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January 7th 2009 at 10:21 PM
[ Modified January 7th 2009 at 10:26 PM
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XCR HYPER TRIPLE
HP WHORE
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1392 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 6th 2004
Location: winnipeg, Canada
Current Sled: 03 XCR 800 + 98 1000 TCAT
2008-2009 Miles: 1247
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Quote originally posted by powersledder
Here's what you need Hyper, a 800 XCR powered IQr
Now that's an awesome looking sled!  That is the exact sled I need bro! 
Cheers
POWDER BOUND
Quote: From American Snowmobiler
Polaris will return with the 800 XCR. The big triple triple mill is still the strongest 800 production engine we've ever put on the dyno. 159.2 HP
2003 XCR 800 TRIPLE TRIPLE, Clutched, Geared, 1.25" Rip Saw track, Holtzman ATAAC and VForce 3 Reeds
2002 XC 600
1998 THUNDER CAT 1000 Triple Triple Crazy HP, Case Ported, Cylinder work, Shaved head, bored carbs, clutched, D & D deflection adjuster, Holtzman vari flow, V-force 3 reeds, Can and studs
1997 ULTRA 680 TRIPLE, 2006 PRO X 120, 1981 EXCITER 440
1971 CHEVELLE
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January 7th 2009 at 10:55 PM
[ Modified January 7th 2009 at 10:58 PM
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I find it funny how some people want to keep comparing a 93 XLT to 09 IQ, and keep saying what a superior sled they are! QUIT comparing chassis that were built 16 years apart!! QUIT comparing a CFI twin to a piston port triple!! I think all hyper is trying to say is build an IQ with an 800 triple in it and compare it to an 800 twin powered IQ, there would be no comparision!! The triple would rock the twin on the lake, it'd rock it on a trail or a ditch!!
To answer another members question "well why don't they make a triple anymore" the answer is simple, MONEY!! It was cheaper to build a twin than it was a triple, but we the customer didn't see the savings, the Polaris share holders did, bottom line, plain and simple!! Polaris started playing follow the leader clear back in '00, when the other 3 (who had never built a complete line up of rock solid triples) decided to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with the whole "light weight" LIE!! Look at what the other 3 built for triples, DOO had the REAL Mach Z, cat had the T-Cat (the ZRT's were powerful but were tanks) and Yammi built a 600 & 700 which were powerful engines strapped into a heavy, rough riding chassis!!
I can PROVE the Polaris conspiracy, in 1997 Polaris built the Ultra SP and in 1998 the 700 XC, I'll go dig up the weights off polarisman.com and post them, then all you "lightweight twin" believers will see the TRUTH!!
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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January 7th 2009 at 11:00 PM
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Jorgy84
Junior Member
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200 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 6th 2006
Location: Onawa, IA, USA
Current Sled: 05 King Cat 900 162 EFI
2008-2009 Miles: 286
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if the newer sleds are slower in 1/4 mile. There is probly a reason for it. Times changed what the every day joe wants in a sled has changed. Same reason the muscle cars died in the 70's times change demand changes people want different things.
when in doubt throttle it out
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January 7th 2009 at 11:13 PM
[ Modified January 7th 2009 at 11:24 PM
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Heres the specs for the 97 Ultraa WITH steel skis...509 lbs
http://polarisman.com/site/DisplayModel....&Year=1997
Heres the specs for the 98 700 XC WITH composite skis..484 lbs
http://polarisman.com/site/DisplayModel....&Year=1998
Want some more eye opening FACTS?? The 97 600 XC (a triple) and the 98 600 XC (a twin) theres an 8 lb weight difference!!!
http://polarisman.com/site/DisplayModel....&Year=1997
http://polarisman.com/site/DisplayModel....&Year=1998
I didn't forget about you mountain guys either!! Heres the BIG weght difference between a twin and triple long track!!
1997 700 SKS (twin) w/136 514 lbs
1997 XLT SKS (triple) w/133 495 lbs (yep thats right LIGHTER than the twin)
1997 700 RMK (twin) w/136 496 lbs
1997 XLT RMK (triple)w/133 490 lbs (yep once again LIGHTER than the twin
So how in the world did Polaris make so many believe that the twin was lighter?? They started building the aggressive chassis which NEVER saw a twin power plant, only a TRIPLE!! All of a sudden the triple weighed 555 lbs and the the new edge chassis saw a twin power plant!! Interesting FACTS aren't they??
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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January 7th 2009 at 11:36 PM
[ Modified January 7th 2009 at 11:39 PM
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In 1998 the the twins were put into the Gen II, the triples were still stuck in the aggressive. I wonder why it is Polaris never built a triple powered EDGE? For those of you thinking "I was duped" you are correct, Polaris Industries pulled the wool over are eyes and today people still drink the Twin kool-aid and convince themselves that a twin is superior to a triple in EVERY catagory. The truth is a CFI triple powered IQ would be the sh*t, with a difference of 8-10 lbs!!!! Quote originally posted by Jorgy84
if the newer sleds are slower in 1/4 mile. There is probly a reason for it. Times changed what the every day joe wants in a sled has changed. Same reason the muscle cars died in the 70's times change demand changes people want different things.
No jorgy companies are catering to a bunch of 13 and 14 year wanna be slednecks that can't afford to buy a new sled in the 1ts place!!
General in the Anti-Catsdouche06 army, saving the world from stupidity and inbreeding!
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January 8th 2009 at 12:21 AM
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FireCat59
Senior Member
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3113 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 3rd 2007
Location: Camden, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 F7 SP
2008-2009 Miles: 800
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Polaris will never make another triple again unless it is a four stroke. I see where most of you are coming from. I believe the only manufacturers making triples are ski-doo and yammi, which are four strokes.
You guys sound like a bunch of conspirators on here about these god dam triples. If Polaris did this if Polaris did that, If and ****. Get over it. I highly doubt that most of you triple lovers on here would just go right out and buy a brand new triple 800 cfi if it came out anyways. Then your excuse would be you never buy a first year sled, well if nobody buys it then bye bye to that. I can care less about top end speed on a lake. I never ride a lake. I ditch bang and pound the trails with some occasional powder riding when we get enough snow. Most people trail ride anyways.
Don't take my post personally by any means but that's just my opinion. I've grown up on triples, an xlt, two xcr's and 2 rxls. They are very smooth running sleds and for the people that just want to ride flat trails cruising they work great! Havn't had any motor problems with them at all. But, these are 20 year old sleds I'm talking about. I would just prefer to have a big bore twin, I loved my fusion and next year I plan on getting an 06 fusion 900. But that's me.
"Who cares about triples, I could hit myself in the face with a frying pan and feel just as good as riding 10 miles on xtra 10." hahaha
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January 8th 2009 at 12:31 AM
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Jorgy84
Junior Member
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200 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: March 6th 2006
Location: Onawa, IA, USA
Current Sled: 05 King Cat 900 162 EFI
2008-2009 Miles: 286
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huh i always thought companies went after the market that could and will buy the sleds. not the group that has no money. most companies are out there to make money not losse it.
when in doubt throttle it out
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January 8th 2009 at 12:38 AM
[ Modified January 8th 2009 at 12:39 AM
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FireCat59
Senior Member
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3113 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: February 3rd 2007
Location: Camden, NY, USA
Current Sled: 05 F7 SP
2008-2009 Miles: 800
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And that is why they do not make a triple 2 stroke anymore^^^^
At least that's what I believe anyways. I really do not think a lot of people would just go right out and buy one if some way some how Polaris made a CFI triple. Who knows though.
"Who cares about triples, I could hit myself in the face with a frying pan and feel just as good as riding 10 miles on xtra 10." hahaha
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January 8th 2009 at 12:43 AM
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stringcheese
Serpentine Slayer
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647 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: December 10th 2007
Location: Waterford, Michigan, USA
Current Sled: 93 TCAT,F7,85 MX
2008-2009 Miles: 431
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Quote originally posted by KingPrat
Quote originally posted by bob800
No, but you are a child
 Boy, you just don't know when to stop. Ignorant....
Anyway, it's tough to compare the new twins with the old lake runner triples. These new performance sleds were built with the on trail performance in mind, and those trips were built with straight line speed in mind. To say the new twins, which probably make similar HP out of the box than some of the old trips, are a bit slower is a testament to where the progression of this sport has taken us. People are more interested in how high they can jump their new sled than how fast it can go across a lake. (maybe over open water, but that's beside the point)
I just think that the sport has progressed to the point we are now: people want something that can take on the ditches without killing their knees and backs, and be able to hit 100ish mph. They want to take that side trail and be able to hit it 20mph faster than they could 5-10 years ago.
Just my .02
Dude, I hate getting involved in this kind of thread. But, that old lake racer would probably suprise the **** out of you in tight trails. Especially as it went shooting by you. When you push those things, even on the most whipped trail, they still perform awesomely. The harder you push them the better they handle without the unexpected suprises the huge travel suspensions sometimes deliver.
my .02 
Brappp cough cough brap--PPAAAAAAAAAHHH pull pull pull pull cough pfffft cough BRAAPPP-POP pull pull pull pull pull SH!T!
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January 8th 2009 at 12:55 AM
[ Modified January 8th 2009 at 1:09 AM
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Rubi
Advanced Member
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1018 Posts
Group: Members
Member Since: January 1st 2007
Location: Alexandria, MN, USA
Current Sled: 2000 XCSP 600
2008-2009 Miles: 1071
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The new riding postition is what makes sleds slower. I definitely agree with MonsterJay on that point. Cat knew the importance of wind resistance when they designed the Firecat chassis. The narrow track made a big difference at high speeds, and made the F7 legendary as a modern fast sled. I replaced an XC101 (I think that's what it's called) skid with an xtra10 in an old Indy sled, and just that change in suspension made me lose about 3 to 4 mph on topend (according to speedo.) Think of the difference in speed when you factor in how much higher an XP or IQ chassis is compared to those old sleds. That being said, I don't think anyone would dispute the contention that a modern triple motor in a modern chassis would be faster than a modern twin in the same chassis.
Ultra, I don't agree with you when you say that the companies are catering to 14 year old slednecks wanna bes. Take a look at Cat's new sleds. Pretty much everyone agrees that they are the best ride out there when it comes to rough trails. (I've heard that from Polaris and Ski Doo owners who've ridden the new Cats) Trouble is, the new F chassis is heavy as a tank, and not the best for the 14 year olds who jump and carry-on offtrail. Who is Cat catering to?
Personally, I would sacrifice speed for the new riding position any day! My back cannot take the abuse that the older chassis dish out. I can ride an Edge sled because I stand up almost all the time. When I sit, my feet are behind me like on a drag sled. That way my legs can absorb the shock. With my feet in the footwells, sitting in the traditional position of an older sled, I'd be in traction in about 14 minutes, and back surgery would ensue in less than half an hour. It would be very nice to be sitting up higher so the transition to stand-up riding was effortless, and sitting on the seat would be possible without excruciating pain.
What I don't understand is why the factories DON'T put a triple in a modern chassis. There are enough people out there that would shell out big bucks for a sled as dominant as that would be. Look at how many people are putting $5,000 turbos on their sleds to make them faster. I'd certainly pay $1,500 more than a twin for a 900 triple from the factory before I'd put $5 to $7K into an aftermarket turbo. I think the longevity and reliability of the factory triple would far exceed that of the turbo. I think the factories are losing money to the aftermarket by NOT producing a factory sled as powerful as a modern triple would be. I think there are even emissions advantages that triples inherently possess which the twins don't. It wouldn't take much marketing effort to sell the modern customer on the advantages of a triple. How about a direct injected 600 triple that could get 25 mpg and exceed 100 mph. Who wouldn't want something like that?
1990 Indy 400 (Slightly modded with welded tunnel cracks and various used Indy parts from models throughout the 90's)
2006 Stihl Chainsaw
1980's Vintage Lawnboy Lawnmower
2005 Husqvarna Weed Whacker (It sucks to rewind the string, but that 31cc motor sure is torquey!)
2000 Polaris XCSP Edge 600 (1.5" Track, 22x40 gearing, Aaen exhaust, Student Driver pivot riser package)
2008 RMK 600 144"
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