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Discussion Starter #101
RRR said:
Ok. Would it be easier to use the MS then?
Both have their merit. Stock ECU works without any modifications to the stock loom or ignition system.
If you have the luxury of a dyno to map on, the stock ECU is easy to map.
If you want to do the mapping in the field, you really want a datalogger to assess the progress, something that can record EGTs on all cylinders and air:fuel ratio along with engine speed and throttle position. I am accomplishing this with a solution from Innovate Motorsports.
If you get MS, well, you can datalog from the ECU to a laptop or mobile phone for everything except EGT, MS2 has only two free channels that could be used for EGT. I think MS3 has more channels and internal logging but it also costs as much as an AEM so I don't know if it's really a good option.
 

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Hey quick question for you, what type of IDC are you seeing with those 550CC injectors at idle? Also what is your Idle speed? I am looking to upgrade injectors to something bigger on my Turbo 650 but I am worried that much bigger than 550CC and I will not be able to trim them short enough to idle.

Also what is your IDC at full boost, and at what boost?

Thanks, Dan
 

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[/quote]
Funny ain't it ;)

But for the record, the Mikuni oil injection pump uses a cam driven piston and a rotary valve, it will work in both directions. I also think the triple may have too much inertia and not enough low rpm grunt for electric reverse to work reliably, it requires a single combustion event applying enough torque to stop the motor before top dead center and spin it hard enough backwards to get the next cylinder to and past TDC.

Today, reviewing some datalogs I found out that my regulator/rectifier responsible for charging the battery failed at the sand drags at the beginning of last month and I haven't had any charging since. I have a habit when drag racing of keeping a generator running all day, charging the vehicle whenever it's in the pits. Whether this had anything to do with blowing my regulator I don't know but it was certainly a good thing in the second event when the sled wasn't charging by itself at all. I can't seem to find a new regulator on ebay so I'll just do a little rewiring and use the stock charging coil to feed the oil pump at low RPM with the high RPM excess going into the battery.

The seat and fuel tank are also back in place for the winter and I had just forgotten how much anti-fun it is trying to bleed the air out of the fuel tank pickup hose.

Now there's not much to do other than wait for the snow...
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[BowDown]HOLY CRAP!! [BowDown]Its like reading a page from Einstein's log book. You guys are unreal. AWESOME build and very interesting thread.[1237] Like to see some vids when ur done hopefully. Or at least when you make a few passes down the track with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
gndan said:
Hey quick question for you, what type of IDC are you seeing with those 550CC injectors at idle? Also what is your Idle speed? I am looking to upgrade injectors to something bigger on my Turbo 650 but I am worried that much bigger than 550CC and I will not be able to trim them short enough to idle.

Also what is your IDC at full boost, and at what boost?

Thanks, Dan
Injectors are flow tested 590cc/min on Asnu machine. I might change them for 750cc injectors I took out of my DSM if I decide I need more flow.
Idle pw is around 1.5ms which is plenty. I've been seeing 75% injector duty cycle at 15psi boost.
I recently purchased an incomplete Superflow engine dyno which should arrive early next month, this will enable finding every last horsepower the engine has in stock by tweaking the fuel, spark and boost level.
 

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I'm glad to hear this, that means that I should be able to get away with 500CC injectors on my sled if I found something that small since I only plan on running around 7-8PSI. If I remember you said the stock ones were pretty well tapped out at 5PSI?

Also could I borrow that Superflow after you are done with it? ;-) lol

,Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #106
Yes, you could get away with that. I was going to use 450cc DSM injectors I had but when time came to I couldn't remember where I had put them so I bought some Lancer Evo 8/9 injectors on eBay. I had calculated after reading through a lot of dyno sheets from Dynotech that the 450s should be enough to get me started, with sufficient flow for about 9-10psi boost.
The Superflow has lots more assignments for when this sled has been mapped, I have a surplus of ongoing projects.
 

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baldur said:
Yes, you could get away with that. I was going to use 450cc DSM injectors I had but when time came to I couldn't remember where I had put them so I bought some Lancer Evo 8/9 injectors on eBay. I had calculated after reading through a lot of dyno sheets from Dynotech that the 450s should be enough to get me started, with sufficient flow for about 9-10psi boost.
The Superflow has lots more assignments for when this sled has been mapped, I have a surplus of ongoing projects.
I was completely joking about the dyno I couldn't imagine shipping to Illinois, USA from you! lol

After doing some looking would a "Standard" delphi fuel injector not fit an RXL throttle body/fuel rail system? It looks like they have different injector top o-ring bore sizes and a projected tip but I can't find dimensions. I wonder if the injector spray pattern would work fine if I drilled the rail to fit?

,Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #108
gndan said:
baldur said:
Yes, you could get away with that. I was going to use 450cc DSM injectors I had but when time came to I couldn't remember where I had put them so I bought some Lancer Evo 8/9 injectors on eBay. I had calculated after reading through a lot of dyno sheets from Dynotech that the 450s should be enough to get me started, with sufficient flow for about 9-10psi boost.
The Superflow has lots more assignments for when this sled has been mapped, I have a surplus of ongoing projects.
I was completely joking about the dyno I couldn't imagine shipping to Illinois, USA from you! lol

After doing some looking would a "Standard" delphi fuel injector not fit an RXL throttle body/fuel rail system? It looks like they have different injector top o-ring bore sizes and a projected tip but I can't find dimensions. I wonder if the injector spray pattern would work fine if I drilled the rail to fit?

,Dan
I am currently awaiting shipping from Virginia, USA.
I don't think you'd have much luck fitting a Bosch style fuel injector without replacing the fuel rail, I don't think there's enough room for the 14mm hole those injectors expect but it might fit the throttle bodies.
The fuel rail holes needed some reaming to accept the Mitsubishi injectors, from 10.5 to 11mm if I recall correctly. Those kinds of injectors are most commonly found in jap cars, MMC, Toyota, Suzuki, Subaru.
I wouldn't worry much about the spray pattern, the stock injectors are just a straight spray aiming at the bottom of the inlet port, but I figure the evo 8/9 injectors have a good spray since they come out of a late model car which has to pass emissions.
Since you have a powerful pump and a good electrical system it might also just pay to bump the fuel pressure up a bit with an adjustable regulator. Stock Polaris regulator is low pressure, like 38psi if I recall correctly. Bumping that up to 60psi will net 25% more flow. I like to keep the pressure low in mine to reduce the current used by the pump at idle because I'm effectively running off the battery at idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #109
Took this one out today, looks like I filled up with contaminated 100LL because I didn't make it out of sight of the trailer before I had burned all three head gaskets and the center piston, and this was at low boost!

Buddy's turbo yammer.

Pto gasket:

Center gasket:
 

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That sucks having a failure right off of the trailer, but it beats having to tow a sled for miles back to the trailer.

Have you considered switching head gasket material? Cometic will stamp them out of pretty much anything, and make them any thickness you want. Custom gaskets are quite a bit more than the price of a standard gasket set, so you will want to be sure that what you're ordering is exactly what you want.

As an alternative, you could cut o-rings into the jug in the lathe, and use thicker or double base gaskets. This will also raise your ports by about .055inch.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Ugly_old_Poo_kid said:
That sucks having a failure right off of the trailer, but it beats having to tow a sled for miles back to the trailer.

Have you considered switching head gasket material? Cometic will stamp them out of pretty much anything, and make them any thickness you want. Custom gaskets are quite a bit more than the price of a standard gasket set, so you will want to be sure that what you're ordering is exactly what you want.

As an alternative, you could cut o-rings into the jug in the lathe, and use thicker or double base gaskets. This will also raise your ports by about .055inch.
I am considering making new gaskets from copper and using a stainless steel O-ring to help seal the chamber, cutting a groove into either the head or the jug to hold the O ring, and at the same time fitting stronger cylinder studs and head studs along with a plate to support the jugs.
I could of course run without gaskets but that would require modifications of the heads to restore the compression down to where it was. Raising the jugs is better for tweaking port duration than it is for altering compression.
 

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I love it man!!! keep up the great work . Video once completed would also be nice :p
 

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Are you making your own dyno software or buying the rest? My Coworker built a waterbrake engine dyno from scratch,it was a ton of work but it works good.
 

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Discussion Starter #116
RMK-KING said:
Are you making your own dyno software or buying the rest? My Coworker built a waterbrake engine dyno from scratch,it was a ton of work but it works good.
Probably making my own software, using an ECU I designed some time ago for data acquisition and control, it has 24 analog inputs, 6 frequency inputs and 100Mbps ethernet to transmit the data to a computer along with all of the outputs necessary to control the load valve and peripherals like cooling and fuel pumps, there's also CAN and RS232 on board to interface with other instruments. If I need more channels I can add another board and hook it to the same ethernet network.
I have already got my hands on some fuel flow turbines for BSFC measurement, will add an air flow turbine once I have everything else set up.
Still left to buy are the load cell, cooling fans, some torsional shock absorbers and sprockets for a reduction gear to have better control over small two strokes.
Left to build are load valve, water system, cooling tower, frame to attach everything to and a dyno starter drive.
 

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wow i wanted to do that to my indy its not gonna happen... di you do anything with the porting? and polishing or port timing? any crank/case mods?
 

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Discussion Starter #118
Boomermuskoka said:
wow i wanted to do that to my indy its not gonna happen... di you do anything with the porting? and polishing or port timing? any crank/case mods?
The motor is currently stock apart from the overbored cylinders.
 

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You had mentioned a while back that you were going to do some testing with MAF. Do you have any data you could share? I am doing some ECM testing on the simulator at different air flows and I am curious to what you are seeing for pulse widths with your 590cc injectors. I would like to try and correlate it with mine at a couple different points to check and see if my MAF fueling calculations are even close.

Thanks, Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #120
gndan said:
You had mentioned a while back that you were going to do some testing with MAF. Do you have any data you could share? I am doing some ECM testing on the simulator at different air flows and I am curious to what you are seeing for pulse widths with your 590cc injectors. I would like to try and correlate it with mine at a couple different points to check and see if my MAF fueling calculations are even close.

Thanks, Dan
I can dig up the log when I get home, it's on my other laptop. I do remember that at 10psi, 8600rpm, I was seeing 4.16V on this 1994 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 MAF. If the transfer functions found at http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/253809-4-6l-maf-into-5-0-a.html are anything close to reality, that's 21lbs/min of air.
I have got my hands on some stronger cylinder and head bolts, 12.9 grade (176900psi min tensile strength). This, along with the copper head gaskets being cut on the waterjet, hopefully ends the gasket problems.
 
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