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Discussion Starter #1
I was talking with luke segerra at hinckley motor sports and asked if he would put on a clutching seminar where people could show up bring any clutch parts they have ask a bunch of questions and spend a couple of hours trying to teach the basic fundamentals of clutching and a little on the rest of the machine
if interested please reply so we can set a date
is a 10 dollar cover charge reasonable or do we need no charge?
you people need to meet him and listen
I have read snow goers clutch article every year and didnt learn a thing but luke makes it basic and easy for anyone
plus how many aftermarket people are going to take time to answer questions they wont tell you any thing about there clutch kits you by it or you dont
please respond if this is something we can do
I am getting nothing for this just giving a favor back
thank you
 

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I would brother but you being in Minn. doesn't help me much here in Canada. If I was in your area...I would in a heart beat. Good work on your part by trying to do everyone else a favour.



Edited by - mrpolaris18 on 12 Mar 2002 21:51:05
 

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really clutching isn't that confusing though. Last year I knew nothing about clutching, now I have a fully custom clutch setup on my sled. It works quite well, although I'd still like a clutch kit from a high performance company like hot seat.

Basically, a stronger spring in the primary causes later engagement. heavier weights bring down top RPM, and cause the clutch to close faster. A sharper angled helix makes engine RPM's go higher, as does a stronger secondary clutch spring.

That is the basics of clutching. If you understand that, you can probably figure the whole thing out.



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so if you use heavier wieghts to close the clutch faster and a sharper angled helix to get your rpm's back, your machine should have more "jump" and possibly a higher top end if your ending rpm's were higher than what you started with? whoa, that sounds confusing, but i understand it i think...

Celebrate Your Indepence With A Rocket...Ride Polaris
 

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You will have more jump, but you will not have increased top end, because of the sharper angled helix, and tighter spring, the engine has to work a lot harder to pull the secondary clutch apart. It may be easier to close the primary, but if the secondary is difficult to open, you will be spinning horsepower away in RPM's.

There is no perfect clutch setup. If you want lots of power (Midrange pulling) you will lose top end, and your machine will use more fuel, if you want lots of speed, you will lose midrange torque. There may be a happy medium, but no perfect setup.



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Discussion Starter #6
actually the primary spring has to rates you can up or down the engagement rpms and keep shift rate the same.

the shape of the wieght has as much to do as the amount of weight if the tip is real heavy it will pull like a lighter trail weight.

the secondary spring has to rates compression and torsion

the higher the helix angle the harder it pulls ie: a 53-36 on my sled will pull 500rpm lower than a 50-36 if all else is the same

lukes clutch kit makes my hot seat look like paper weights
you have to test your kit against a radar or clock to see what you gain or lose
seat of the pants means nothing
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I said the weight backwards. a 60 gram with a lot of tip weight will pull like a 62 gram trail weight were the mass is at the pin not at the tail
sounds like you have learned some stuff but you just need a little fine tunning to your facts. you are correct that clutching isnt hard to understand. but when you get to building kits it opens a whole new world what weight how much where on the weight what primary starting rate what shift rate do I go up or down on helix angles keep the starting angle the same and up the top angle or decrease the starting and keep the top the same
what about secondary spring do i increase the compression decrease the torsion how will this affect the wieght and helix
there is honestly a thousand combination to clutching one sled wich one can you build one that works good or one that works great
 

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Why don't you just buy the Aaen Clutch tuning book and read it???!!!!

******************
2000 ZR 500 EFI
2001 ZR 600 EFI w/heelclickers
2003 F7 EFI on order
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by jon stevens:


lukes clutch kit makes my hot seat look like paper weights
you have to test your kit against a radar or clock to see what you gain or lose
seat of the pants means nothing


[/quote]

Ok, this is not the place to glorify your buddy. I'm sure he does fine work, but I highly doubt this.



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are promoting this luke guy? or work for him or something? every post u have mentions him

There's always next year....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
some of the clutch tuning books dont read so easy
no I dont work for him I am just releaved to finally find a snowmobile expert that does more than just sell you parts. When I had my first xlt 95 I went to hay days looking for clutch answers because I was overeving not one company told me anything all they said was by our clutch kit and it will fix the problem. Over the next few years thats all I ever heard by our product then we will answer questions. Its just a relief to finaly have a person answer questions and expain what his fixes are before you by parts. thats all I will stop bringing him up so much
and i dont doubt that he can teach hot seat a lot. In the little he taught me I made a better trail clutch kit than what i got from hot seat.
 

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First of all, if you go to a dealer trying to get them to tell you how to fix your sled, you are a moron. They will not tell you because they want to charge you 100 dollars an hour to work on your machine. That is why nobody but the wonderful luke would help you out.

A guy who works out of his garage has taught me all I know about clutches and stuff, and he's just like luke, he's not a dealer, he's a mechanic, willing to share ideas. No dealer will tell you what to do.

Again, I highly doubt luke will show Hot Seat how to make a clutch kit. Hot Seat knows Polaris.



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EXACTLY RIGHT P-MAN! hotseat and polaris go hand in hand, just like blackmagic and arctic cat........hotseat has been around way more years then your friend, so i would put money down that he could not "out-clutch" hotseat. im not knockin your buddy or anything, but if you are interested in something, any company rep will take the time to explain to you how it works and what it will do for you,,,,ive been to haydays as well and i talk to all the reps about different things for my sled.....and they have alsways gone the extra mile to explain how this works or that works. its all about how you present yourself to them, and how you ask your questions.......besides, hotseat was started by the houle's, anyways he got his start at a polaris dealership, then the owner passed away and he moved on to start hotseat 20 years ago,,,,,so id say they deffinately know whats up

1993 xlt sp 580
xtra 10 suspension
 

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good points all around boys! i'd be willing to bet luke could out clutch hotseat in specific areas, but hotseat makes their kits to perform good in a wide variety of conditions. how would they know what each and every sledder wants? they try to please the mainstream buyer. if luke can do this so well he just as well start his own business.

i do think the seminar would be good though. sure there are books, but who wants to read through an inch thick manual when you could see it up close and see exactly how it works. it would be just like teaching school. either a lot of chalk talk or hands on learning.

There's no stopping Arctic Cat........ REALLY!!

'99 XC SP 500
 

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I'm not really commenting on any 1 aftermarket company or any 1 guy cause they will all differ and everyone has different opinions of them. But I can comment on how hard it is to clutch. Six years of racing has taught me that just when you think you have clutching figured out, it does something completly 180 of what it was supposed to do. But most aftermarket companies have worked on clutching, and reworked on clutching and reworked on....you get my point. Usually they will know how to get you to where you want to go. Because of this work they have put into this product they are reluctant te just give out information for free. So when you say "they" won't tell you anything at least you might be able to see where "they" might be coming from. BUT most companies will be willing to give you some ideas, so be it ideas that involve their products, if they think they might get a return out of it.
 

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I agree with what XC said. Luke can probably make a really good specific condition machine. Like designed for a certain altitude and air temps and such, which make them seem better than a hot seat kit. It would be too because it would be custom made. But a company has to make it use-able in lots of different conditions.



http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com

I love B&M Coasters!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by jon stevens:

some of the clutch tuning books dont read so easy.

[/quote]

If you can't understand the books, then maybe you shouldn't be the type that does his own clutching????

No one can build the perfect clutch kit for all conditions. One needs to tune to their own needs, not everyone elses.

You guys can keep all of your Hot Seat, Black Magic, D&D, or whoever's clutch kits. Go with a Heelclicker or Heavy Hitter weight set, the beauty is that they are adjustable, unlike any other kit. One can adjust until it is correct for that sled, conditions and rider preference.


******************
2000 ZR 500 EFI
2001 ZR 600 EFI w/heelclickers
2003 F7 EFI on order
 

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Don't you guys think that you are being a little harsh on this guy? I mean he was just trying to help out, and wasn't really talking smack about anything. Maybe this luke guy really does know his stuff.

2002 Arctic Cat ZR 800 EFI

 

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Ya, i think you guys should lay off. The guys was trying to do a few people a favour and offer his time, and his buddies knowledge to help some person, who is new, or just doesn't understand clutching some help. If I wasn't in Canada, I would be there.

I usually agree with you guys, but this time, I think that if someone is trying to do a favour for others, why knock that?
Maybe he over exagerates about luke, but atleast luke is giveing people that he doesn't even know, the time of day to help them out.

Come on guys listen to what your saying.

my 99 cents

GO HARD, OR GO HOME
 

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Who's knocking? I'm just saying what I think of the matter.



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