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Discussion Starter #1
I am always apprehensive about trying out these 2-good-2-be-true products, but I have to share my experience with Enviro-Save. Its a one-time engine treatment (not an oil additive) that I believe works very well.

I first heard of Enviro-Save from my buddy from which I bought my first sled ('96 ZiRT600). He treated the engine after breaking and I bought it with 1400 miles on it. I sold this sled to a friend of mine earlier this year with 2800 miles on it. It was amazing how smooth this 600 ran and how much power it still had. It would start better than any machine I've ever seen. These sleds were notorious for having crank problems at relatively low mileage. Like I said, no indication of any problems with this one.

Last September I purchased a 900 1M, and reluctantly (at that time) paid for the 2-stroke engine, gearbox, and cooling system treatments. I think the bill was about CDN$240. At the end of this last riding season, I took the sled into my dealer for some small warranty issues. These 900's came from the factory with some jetting issues. I installed the Holtzman ATACC and rejetted mine the day I got it so I seemed to have solved this problem before it started. However, I wanted the dealer to pull the heads and confirm there was no damage to the pistons, liners, and/or heads. The dealer was shocked to find almost no indication of wear inside this engine. Compression tests showed 145psi at each cylinder, which apparently is 5psi higher than any other 900 they had tested with similar mileage (about 600 miles). Most other 900's were testing 5-10 psi lower. Dealer said that 145psi is what they see on new engines prior to breakin.

I won't go into the details (cause I'm not qualified), but the engine treatment is a one time addition to the fuel system. It treats all interanl metal surfaces, as well as various seals and pumps. Gearbox and cooling treatments apparently keep fluids from becoming acidic. Apparently, gearbox oil breaks down due to this acidic buildup, which then cases problems for the seals. Same goes for the cooling system, pumps, etc.

I'm one happy customer and can honestly recommend these products to fellow sledders. With today's high performance engines in these machines, a guy needs all the help he can get...$240 is peanuts.

http://www.mcintyresauto.com/html/enviro-save.html
 

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Looks interesting, I've seen companies do this for Gas & Diesel motors but this is the first time I have seen a product for a two stroke. Thanks for the info.
 

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Nice to hear that you are happy with your purchase. You should be a salesman for this stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by Canuck
[br]Nice to hear that you are happy with your purchase. You should be a salesman for this stuff.
Maybe your right. Want to buy some?
 
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Flange,
One of the guys I ride with adds SFR "Superior Friction Reduction" to all his stuff. He swears by it. I am leary of the stuff. We both have the same sled. Mine is a 2002 and his a 2003. I will compare sleds in about 3 years. He puts some in the oil, the gas, the chain case. I think I even saw him take a tug off the jug himself once.

D
 

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Originally posted by D Noel
[br]Flange,
He puts some in the oil, the gas, the chain case. I think I even saw him take a tug off the jug himself once.

D
[:D] Bet he doesn't have any constipation issues!
 

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LOL...ya i caught that one...

sounds like some interesting stuff there Flange...
 

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Run Amsoil or Klotz and you don't need that stuff
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Originally posted by ACEXLT
[br]Run Amsoil or Klotz and you don't need that stuff
Your only supposed to run synthetic in these 900's. So...everyone is running synthetic...how would YOU explain the 5-10psi higher compression in my engine as opposed to the other 20 that they checked? Oh yeah...Amsoil. Well, I asked about that after they inspected my machine, and almost every brand of aftermarket lubricant was represented in the 20 odd sleds they had checked. Again, not one engine produced the same compression as mine.
 

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After doing some searching on the net about this product I found out exactly what this stuff is and now I'm not impressed at all. Really had to dig through the Enviro-save site to find out what it actually is. Nothing more than a high priced Teflon also called TFE or tetra flouro ethylene. TFE is found in PTFE which is TFE mixed with petroleum.
A simple way to put it is if you have a teflon frying pan, you cannot use a metal spatula on it because it will take the Teflon right off. Hence, I cannot see this product as being a long term metal protectant in a internal combustion engine.

Flange don't take this personally, I just wanted to inform everyone else on what this eviro-save stuff actually is.
 
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I wonder if the SFR "Superior Friction Reduction" is the same teflon type stuff. The guy I ride with puts some in his oil res. each time he adds oil. He also puts some in the gas on each fill up. He said it works great on everything but automatic trans. I guess it makes them slip??? Everything he owns has SFR in it.

D
 

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Originally posted by ACEXLT
[br]Really had to dig through the Enviro-save site to find out what it actually is. Nothing more than a high priced Teflon also called TFE or tetra flouro ethylene. TFE is found in PTFE which is TFE mixed with petroleum.
That's the same ingredient that was in Slick 50 and other engine treatments.

Slick 50 - The FTC banned them from making claims about reduced engine wear etc and they had to pay in the area of $20M in damages. The FTC also had dealings with several other companies for making deceptive claims.

My understanding is that PTFE/TFE is a solid. Dupont, who invented Teflon, claims that "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines." At one point Dupont even refused to sell PTFE to anyone using it as an oil additive.

I'm not trying to start an argument just passing along info.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Whatever...make like a pigeon and shit on it all ya want. I know of 4 engines that have had the treatment, and all has been positive. I'm not going to defend it anymore...frankly I don't give a shit whether you use it or not. I'm convinced it does some good. I guess there is some other reason these engines have out performed and out lasted similar ones hey ACE? So what if theres some Teflon in it (and it ain't solid Teflon cause if pours out of a bottle with similar viscosity of water)...there are lots of Teflon based lubricants on the market today. Last I checked, Teflon is some pretty slippery shit. At least you only add this stuff once and you don't break the bank to do it. I only put the info here to share my experience. If someone wants more info on it, then I'm sure they'll research it (can't be too hard, ACE figured it out,) and maybe even go one step further and use the link I provided to contact a distributor for even more info. I guess they could contact ACE too, although I don't see "hydrocarbon chemist" in ACE's profile, so I don't think I'll bet the farm on his expert review of the product and the fact he's not impressed at all. As for Slick 50, from what I know about it, you have to use it over and over again, so I don't think its the same kind of stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Listen, before this goes any further, let me say that right about the time someone says "Don't take this personal, but..." is usually the time it gets personal. Whatever follows this statement is gonna be trouble. You can't tell someone what to take personal and what not too...that person will decide based on what you say and how you say it. You call into question someones integrity, and they are going to take it personally...everytime. I don't mind disagreement or even being proven wrong, but you gotta have your poop in group before you spout off about something that you don't really know much about. It's difficult to put words into proper context and tone in forums like this, and all too often folks take things the wrong way. ACE, I read over your last post again and maybe I over-reacted. I was ok with your first paragraph, but that last sentence pissed me off cause I don't think you know what the stuff actually is so I don't think you should have said that.
 

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SFR does not contain any teflon. But after reading this excerpt from their site, I don't think SFR is beneficial if you are already using synthetic.

" SFR enhances your oil to withstand much greater abuse. SFR also contains a polymerized molecule that will withstand 400% more friction load than your non-synthetic lubrication package provides."
 

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Originally posted by Flange
[br]. I was ok with your first paragraph, but that last sentence pissed me off cause I don't think you know what the stuff actually is so I don't think you should have said that.
What do you mean?? I had to tell you what it was. If it was me wanting to put something into a 8 thousand dollar sled I would research what the stuff actually is.
Thats funny, I know 2 people with ZRT 600's '96-'97 that have not any probelms. 1 has 4500 miles and the other has 3700 miles. both start and run like the day they were new. You are basing your argument for this Enviro-Save stuff on useless facts.

Anybody who wants to research either of the 2 products mentioned. here are the links to the sites.
http://www.trancertmarketing.com/enviro-save_products.htm

http://www.4unique.com/lubrication/sfr/sfr_popup.htm
 
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