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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/13/epa-approves-more-ethanol-gas/

Environmental groups are among those OPPOSED to this!

It's only a matter of time before ALL stations sell this ___.

Pardons to Beach Boys..
"and we'll have fun,fun,fun, until government legislates our snowmobiles away...."
 

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My sled can run ethanol mixed fuel but goodness, anymore ethanol in the gas and my gas lines and seals are just gonna be eaten away on everything i own, 4-wheeler, motorcycles, truck....[Disappointed] Plus weather they admit it or not, gas mileage WILL go down with the extra ethanol, probably 1-2 MPG, ethanol just doesn't have as much "energy" as conventional gasoline.
 

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tell me about it. i just read that article earlier this morning if E15 is the new standard im not going to be happy.

It is not worth it at all, the only way that it would be worth it is if they increased production of corn/ethanol a lot which they wouldn't do because then they would loose money. But to make it worth it for the customer... never going to happen... thats what they would have to do. Introducing E15, right now, on the large scale would give ethanol a bad name.

Ethanol = poor performance.
 

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Bames said:
tell me about it. i just read that article earlier this morning if E15 is the new standard im not going to be happy.

It is not worth it at all, the only way that it would be worth it is if they increased production of corn/ethanol a lot which they wouldn't do because then they would loose money. But to make it worth it for the customer... never going to happen... thats what they would have to do. Introducing E15, right now, on the large scale would give ethanol a bad name.

Ethanol = poor performance.
Yeah I didn't think about the power loss either, that will probably end up being at least a couple HP. I wish it would just go back to 100% gasoline.
 

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There are a few things that you guys are not looking at, if our vehicles were set up for the ethanol blended fuel performance and mileage would likely be the same as they are with mineral based petroleum.

I am happy about the announcement, hopefully this will have a positive influence on the bean and corn market tomorrow.
 

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ArcticCatZR800 said:
I wish it would just go back to 100% gasoline.
[thumb] That would be nice, among all the other crap they put in there.

Yeah if our sleds were set up for running it then it would be better, with minimal performance loss. But the only way that would happen is if the government mandated all the new sleds to be that way. And i can only imagine how difficult that would be... impossible. Ethanol can't reach combustibility levels that gasoline can.

Gasoline is going to be the new race fuel lol.

Personally, I like the idea of Ethanol because it is renewable. But to make it economically feasible for the customer; it would have to be produced on a much higher scale. Increasing supply, decreasing demand. That makes it not attractive to the agriculture industry and gov. so they are just going to continue giving us the shaft.

BTW I've replaced the fuel filter in my truck twice since i've had it because it needed it. And I am replacing the filter in my sled for this season's tune-up, and it needs it bad, only 2k mi too.
 

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They only put ethanol in 87 here, and no ethanol in gas in the winter [:)]
 

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When sleds start blowing up from having to run higher ethanol I sure hope the govs gonna buy us a new sled that can run it. But they won't, guess it will just take a class action lawsuit.
 

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Empire087 said:
When sleds start blowing up from having to run higher ethanol I sure hope the govs gonna buy us a new sled that can run it. But they won't, guess it will just take a class action lawsuit.
What are you talking about? You can run ethanol in sleds, but you must jet properly for it.
 

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I wish they would go to e-40 across the nation.

all of this whining and 90% of you could put in e-15 and never know it if you werent told you put it in.

ehtonal or alcohol can make a lot more power out of the same engine. why do you think in the 60's-70's sanctioned races seperated classes of alcohol class from other classes. it makes more power.

you already jet for temp and altitude, all you do is reset you baseline of jetting and you wouldnt have a problem with it. you also would not have to worry about gas lines freezing if you get some water in the tank.

the only thing i hate about ethonal is in seasonal vehicles you can get a build up of green crap that plugs the jets.
 

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Ethanol does not have the same performance of gasoline, it doesn't contain the same amount of for lack of a better word, energy. That is why when you configure to run a sled on ethanol(mine you just plug 2 wires together) it tells the sled to add 10% more fuel to the mix. I don't mind the thought of ethanol either, in fact, back in the day when gas prices started to rise, my dad and grandpa made moonshine to run in my dad's car. I also think you should have a choice, putting ethanol in all the fuels would be like suddenly only selling diesel, most car's aren't made for it but they decide to only sell it anyways. I realize that 10% ethanol probably won't hurt most engines but when you get to 15%, it will really start to affect them. It should be your choice to use ethanol or not. And there's a problem with keeping the price of corn up, farmers can't afford the corn to feed their cows, chickens, goats, ect. which in turn makes meat and dairy prices rise.
 

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If they are going to do this they should get the process figured out to make cellulosic ethanol profitable. Cellulosic ethanol creates a lot more product per ton of ingredient(for lack of a better word). This way the many corn-stock and bean stubble bails that have virtually no value another part of the plant the farmer can sell. Also it will help out the livestock farmer by helping to keep corn prices at a reasonable level. The prices now are ridiculous.
 

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Dekk70 said:
If they are going to do this they should get the process figured out to make cellulosic ethanol profitable. Cellulosic ethanol creates a lot more product per ton of ingredient(for lack of a better word). This way the many corn-stock and bean stubble bails that have virtually no value another part of the plant the farmer can sell. Also it will help out the livestock farmer by helping to keep corn prices at a reasonable level. The prices now are ridiculous.
I agree, whoever said that corn prices need to go up obviously doesn't know a thing about farming. Shoot i don't even farm and deer corn around here is like $8 for a 40lbs bag, i can remember when it use to be $2 for a 50lbs and i'm only 18.
 

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Pure Ethanol= 76,330 BTU's / Gallon
Pure 87 0ctane Gasoline= 125,000 BTU's /Gallon

http://www.algenolbiofuels.com/ethanolmakt.htm

Interesting article. In the article it also mentions how ethanol can contain water and the tanks/engines to hold/burn the product must be able to withstand the corrosive effects of dissolved water. Not a problem for the plastic snowmobile tanks, but for the aluminum engine block and components?
 

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BAMT700 said:
Pure Ethanol= 76,330 BTU's / Gallon
Pure 87 0ctane Gasoline= 125,000 BTU's /Gallon

http://www.algenolbiofuels.com/ethanolmakt.htm

Interesting article. In the article it also mentions how ethanol can contain water and the tanks/engines to hold/burn the product must be able to withstand the corrosive effects of dissolved water. Not a problem for the plastic snowmobile tanks, but for the aluminum engine block and components?
You did the work I was too lazy to do[thumb] Point proven, ethanol DOES and WILL make you loose power and efficiency because it does not contain as much energy. Plus its just plain bad for most engines.
 

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ArcticCatZR800 said:
Dekk70 said:
If they are going to do this they should get the process figured out to make cellulosic ethanol profitable. Cellulosic ethanol creates a lot more product per ton of ingredient(for lack of a better word).s way the many corn-stock and bean stubble bails that have virtually no value another part of the plant the farmer can sell. Also it will help out the livestock farmer by helping to keep corn prices at a reasonable level. The prices now are ridiculous.
I agree, whoever said that corn prices need to go up obviously doesn't know a thing about farming. Shoot i don't even farm and deer corn around here is like $8 for a 40lbs bag, i can remember when it use to be $2 for a 50lbs and i'm only 18.

This makes no sense at all You say someone else knows nothing about farming and then go on to say "I don't even farm"
Just because you think your deer corn retails for too much doest mean farmers are getting too much
 

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fusionshuk06 said:
ArcticCatZR800 said:
Dekk70 said:
If they are going to do this they should get the process figured out to make cellulosic ethanol profitable. Cellulosic ethanol creates a lot more product per ton of ingredient(for lack of a better word).s way the many corn-stock and bean stubble bails that have virtually no value another part of the plant the farmer can sell. Also it will help out the livestock farmer by helping to keep corn prices at a reasonable level. The prices now are ridiculous.
I agree, whoever said that corn prices need to go up obviously doesn't know a thing about farming. Shoot i don't even farm and deer corn around here is like $8 for a 40lbs bag, i can remember when it use to be $2 for a 50lbs and i'm only 18.

This makes no sense at all You say someone else knows nothing about farming and then go on to say "I don't even farm"
Just because you think your deer corn retails for too much doest mean farmers are getting too much
I don't farm ANYMORE, i use to own horses and i know how much stuff costs and how much it can hurt a farmer. And farmers that sell corn won't make much if any more profit, the profit will go to the makers/sellers of ethanol, not the farmer.
 

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fusionshuk06 said:
ArcticCatZR800 said:
Dekk70 said:
If they are going to do this they should get the process figured out to make cellulosic ethanol profitable. Cellulosic ethanol creates a lot more product per ton of ingredient(for lack of a better word).s way the many corn-stock and bean stubble bails that have virtually no value another part of the plant the farmer can sell. Also it will help out the livestock farmer by helping to keep corn prices at a reasonable level. The prices now are ridiculous.
I agree, whoever said that corn prices need to go up obviously doesn't know a thing about farming. Shoot i don't even farm and deer corn around here is like $8 for a 40lbs bag, i can remember when it use to be $2 for a 50lbs and i'm only 18.

This makes no sense at all You say someone else knows nothing about farming and then go on to say "I don't even farm"
Just because you think your deer corn retails for too much doest mean farmers are getting too much
True, my thoughts on the subject are if corn prices go up, farms that grow both livestock and corn will stop producing livestock. They will just sell the corn because prices are so high that it would be pointless to use the product to feed the animals. Therefore, a shortage of meat will occur and prices of meat will go up with that of corn. Another question is does it take more energy to produce the ethanol then in the ethanol itself? I would say yes. Gallons of diesel fuel are used to plant, fertilize, harvest, and transport the product. Electricity and fossil fuels are used in the manufacturing of ethanol. Then, more transportation of the manufactured product is used to bring the final product to the pumps requiring more energy. Is it really worth it?
 
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