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Discussion Starter #1
im kinda new to sledding and i have seen some new arctic cats that have fuel injection just wondering what some of the sled savy think of this on a sled ? it seems like a good idea "no carb tunning" sure starts , no compansating for elevation changes, but then again i bet its expensive if things break too, let me know what you think ? as i am considering a newer sled with this, and dont know much about it.

if its not a CAT, then it must be a dog!
 

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Well EFI is kind of a ncie thing since it can adjust itself a little. But it doesn't produce as much horsepower generally. In present setups anyway. Cats and Polaris had EFI for a while but Polaris stopped producing them. Cat just went to a batteryless system where the EFI is powered by the engines electrical system. That is a plus simply because NO battery. SkiDoo is producing a EFI engine in 2003 that is SDI instead of Throttle Body. I still sadly do not grasp the full concept of how SDI works but it stands for Semi Direct Injection. I think it sort of injects fuel into like a cylindrical intake tube which mixes the air fuel mixture then passes over the reeds into the engine. Like I said I still don't grasp it yet. EFI is a way of producing less emissions though which is why sleds may start to lean towards it. Besides switching them Computer boxes out for race ones gives her a bit of power. Guy I know has a 2002 ZL 800 SS EFI and he brought it out grass dragging. THis guy is in really good with D&D Racing like so much that we often joke they may change the name to D&D&S (Dale,Dave, and Steve). Anyway he put a complete race EFI package on it. New computer and ignition system. It looked BONE stock but it was by no means stock. It was setup so tweaked that if he would have run a 1/4 mile race it woudl have blown(we were running 600ft). That thing FLEW it overtook everything out there pretty much. Everything it raced anyway. It didn't race the 1107 ThunderCat for obvious reasons :). This guy is crazy really. He is in so good with D&D that he didn't buy that EFI setup just borrowed it and took it back when he was done.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by Sled_Dog:
But it doesn't produce as much horsepower generally.[/quote]

Completely NOT true!!!! In fact out of the box the Cat EFI's generally dyno higher than the carb models. FACT!

Vetboy,

EFI is the only way to go, especially if your just getting into the sport. Cat has perfected the Batteryless EFI and it provides a crisp throttle response, regardless of temp., altitude, humidity. I have been in this sport for over over 20 years and won't own anything but an EFI. Don't let these guys scare you into carbs, I saw a statistic recently that 70% of the snowmobile public prefers EFI. Relieablility is not an issue. You don't think about it in the vehicle you drive do you??? Come on EFI has been in cars for years and no one complains about it, even when it does fail.

I say go for the EFI, you won't be disappointed.





******************
2000 ZR 500 EFI
2001 ZR 600 EFI w/heelclickers
2003 F7 EFI on order
 

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my truck is carbed and that is what i wanted :). Also cat claims that all there EFI sleds produce about like 1 or 2 horsepower less than their carbed bretheren. Now in different conditions the EFI will be more powerful because it can adjust where as jets don't adjust themselves. As well modifying could be a bit more expensive because a new computer for your sled costs quite a bit more than simple set of jets. If you don't plan big mods(including twin pipes) EFI is the way to go for sure. IN 2003 Cat isn't even offering the Carbed ZR 800 cause more people bought the EFI version.
 

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although i'm not aware of exactly how ski-doos sdi functions, i can give a basic rundown of how direct injection works. The exhaust gasses are scavenged from the cylinder in a two-stroke by the incoming
air/fuel mixture, resulting in raw fuel from the mixture exiting the engine unburned. Using direct injection, the gasses are forced out by fuel-less air, and after the exhaust port is closed, the air/fuel mixture is injected into the cylinder, resulting in only the burned gasses being spewed from the exhaust (Harris 60). It is easy to see that because less raw fuel is lost, fuel economy and emissions both would vastly improve.

that's straight from my term paper. basically it gives the engine more time to burn the fuel so it isn't 'rushed' out unburned. just a more presice way of combustion, since the same principles of a normal two-stroke are utilized.

'99 XC SP 500
Fox shocks stickers- 15 hp
handlebar hooks/riser- 10 hp
red skid plate- 10 hp
red hyfax- 5 hp
running board/edge grips- 20 hp
 

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I don't really get it. Not as much fuel could be put into the cylinder and compressed as much cause the intake woudl ahve to be higher on the cylinder. THe way a 2 stroke works when the piston goes down it intakes fuel and air by vaccum and pressure. Case Reed induction 2 strokes work in the way that when the piston goes up the reed valves open and suck air fuel into the crack case. Then when the piston goes down the air fuel is vaccumed and pressurized into the cylinder. Thats how the crank gets oiled by the oil with the air fuel mixture in the crank. When the carbs were on the topend it is the vaccum that work sit when the piston goes down. I am not certain about when the carbs on the topend. I don't grasp that 100% either. Not sure how the crank gets oiled in that case. THe Exhaust ports in that Multi Port injection would have to be low on the cylinder whcih would only be good for low end power. Standard non-VES or power valve PWC engines have ports to the bottom of the cylinder. They have the lower end grunt. SNowmobiles generally look for a mixture of porting for low end and top end power. Of course you can't have the ports too high or you would have no compression. That is why VES and Power Valves are great. They change where the exhaust port is for changing power allowing for the port to be low at one point and high the next for low end then high end power. ANyway I had no idea how MPI would work on a 2 stroke.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yeah i think i like the sound of the zr 600 efi !!!

if its not a CAT, then it must be a dog!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by ZREFI:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by Sled_Dog:
But it doesn't produce as much horsepower generally.[/quote]

Completely NOT true!!!! In fact out of the box the Cat EFI's generally dyno higher than the carb models. FACT!

Vetboy,

EFI is the only way to go, especially if your just getting into the sport.

Don't let these guys scare you into carbs.

I saw a statistic recently that 70% of the snowmobile public prefers EFI.

[/quote]

This is also completely not true. EFI is NOT the only way to go. The good majority of sleds out there are not EFI, they have carbs. Also I bet most of the people who drive snowmobiles got into the sport using a carbed machine, so EFI is not essential for new people.

Don't let anyone scare you into carbs? What is that supposed to mean. Nobody is here trying to scare anyone into anything.

If 70% of people snowmobiling preferred EFI, all the manufacturers would be putting EFI on almost all their sleds. FACT, only Arctic Cat does this.





http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com

I love B&M Coasters!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by Polaris-Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by ZREFI:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by Sled_Dog:
But it doesn't produce as much horsepower generally.[/quote]

Completely NOT true!!!! In fact out of the box the Cat EFI's generally dyno higher than the carb models. FACT!

Vetboy,

EFI is the only way to go, especially if your just getting into the sport.

Don't let these guys scare you into carbs.

I saw a statistic recently that 70% of the snowmobile public prefers EFI.

[/quote]

This is also completely not true. EFI is NOT the only way to go.
[/quote]

Sorry, should say that IMO EFI is the only way to go. Also, it is true that most people would be better off with EFI, the majority of people do not modify their sleds (READ MAJORITY!!!!)

I was trying to dispell some mis-information and offer my opinion, sorry you got the two things confused.

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2000 ZR 500 EFI
2001 ZR 600 EFI w/heelclickers
2003 F7 EFI on order
 

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Yeah well I ride with people who all mod their sleds and whatever I end up getting I will prolly clutch, reed, and pipe. And though EFI is nice I still would take a Carbed over it. Also I was just saying that Arctic Cat claims themselves that their EFI sleds produce less horsepower. I bet if you dynoed a carbed sled at the exact temp and humidity it is idealy setup for then dynoed a EFI at the same the Carbed woudl probably produce more horsepower. MAybe that is what Cat does. All I know is that they themselves have always said their EFIs produce about 2 or 3 less horsepower than their Carbed.
 

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The majority of people don't modify their sleds, that is true, but all carbed sleds are set up for this from the factory. I can only see EFI coming in handy in the mountains if you don't have an altitude compensator on your carbed machines.

But, read majority yourself, the majority of sleds on the snow are not EFI, they have carburators.

I don't have any problems with EFI, I just prefer carbs because they are more versatile and allow you to monkey with them more. A tweaked carb will put out more HP than an efi.



http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com

I love B&M Coasters!
 

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I agree if I were running a stock sled in the mountains give me EFI any day. But if I ran the mountains I would probably have a piped up and worked sled. :)
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Originally posted by vetboy:
yeah i think i like the sound of the zr 600 efi !!!

if its not a CAT, then it must be a dog!
[/quote]
hope you don't want a new sled, they don't make the zr 600 anymore.


'99 XC SP 500
Fox shocks stickers- 15 hp
handlebar hooks/riser- 10 hp
red skid plate- 10 hp
red hyfax- 5 hp
running board/edge grips- 20 hp
 

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Sled dog where are you getting your info on the Cats .In 96 the carb ZR's were a tick more powerful but since then the Factory , Am Snow, Snow Goer, ECT. have all had the EFI faster year in and year out.But all that aside, the biggest reason for Efi is jetting, its always jetted correctly. When its 34F and your running rich and fowling plugs, the efi sled is kickin your ass till you stop and get gas all over yourself changing jets. Then when the sun goes down and its 5F your starting to get lean enough to pop a piston and I'm still at peak efficiency.And heres what The biggest problem with carbs ... its the people who don't jet for conditions, and the ones who have any idea what they're doin anyway{ example: how many of you know somebody that plays with the mix screw on their chainsaw, and the darn thing never starts or runs worth a damn.} I mean how many of you can say you have sincronized your carbs. Most people just want to yank the cord and go. thats why I ride one. and I know carbs... I'll put my carb skills up against anyone. Also the reason Cat is the only ones with an EFI system is that Polaris lost the rights to use the technology in a multi million dollar lawsuit some years back from some corperation out west.

Spaceman
Mean Green Racing
Elyria, Ohio
 

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Just checked cats site and now they say the EFI and non-EFI put out the same horsepower. And still for me it would be a non-EFI. I don't mind getting dirty and changing some jets. And do you mean the EFIs are getting faster than Carbs or the previous years EFIs? Cause if you mean the previous years EFI umm duh lots and lots of sleds get faster and faster from year to year regardless of Injection type. Not all sleds of course but most.
 

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Changing jets takes about 5 minutes. Big deal. Even if I were gonna buy a cat, I wouldn't buy an EFI. I just don't like the thought of having no control over my jetting. Too much can go wrong with electronics IMHO.



http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com

I love B&M Coasters!
 

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I can agree to most opinions on this topic so far. EFI has its good points and its bad points, just like anything else. Electronics can fritz out- BAD. Optimum 'jetting' for all conditions- GOOD. From the many ACs I've ridden with, most of which are EFI, none have had any problems, and I haven't heard of any in my area. I wouldn't be afraid to buy an EFI Cat, or Polaris, Yammi, or Doo if that were the case. We can't stop technology, so we might as well embrace it for what it is.

'99 XC SP 500
Fox shocks stickers- 15 hp
handlebar hooks/riser- 10 hp
red skid plate- 10 hp
red hyfax- 5 hp
running board/edge grips- 20 hp
 

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well really it does and doesn't set the optimum jetting. It sets the safest yet best power producing jetting. If I want to get out grass dragging lets just say I won't be jetting for extreme safety. So I can't just go into an EFI sled and produce a pony or two more by jetting her a bit leaner like I can on a Carbed sled. I am with PMan I would want the Carbed sled. I wanted a carbed truck and that is what I got. I didn't want EFI. Too many things to go wrong besides you can't do backfires on an EFI engine ;)
 

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I'm just saying that the manufacuters are trying to be the cutest girl in the class. They want everyone to like them the best. It's a popularity contest, and EFI attracts may buyers. And realistically, how many people go and grass drag their sled or even change jetting specs from the factory? The factory knows this so they can sell EFI in its 'non-optimun' state and still have plenty of performance, safety, and reliability for 99.9 percent of the buyers out there.

'99 XC SP 500
Fox shocks stickers- 15 hp
handlebar hooks/riser- 10 hp
red skid plate- 10 hp
red hyfax- 5 hp
running board/edge grips- 20 hp
 

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Your completely right most people buy a sled and ride it. Maybe put studs and carbides on(or have the dealer do it) and that is that. Personally I go out and race and change stuff so hey I know what I want.
 
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