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Discussion Starter #1
I dont mean to sound so hard on aftermarket but I dont like hearing people say that they bought this for 200 or for 10 and now it sits on the shelf cause it doesnt work. to read a racer say It works for me it will work for you, thats just silly. in the world of racing half a second is huge. to the average person on the trail half a second is nothing. it feels faster means nothing make these products prove themselves on the clock or radar. If you tune any adjustment or change or aftermarket product to a clock or radar you know for a fact that you have gained or lost something in perfomance and thats the bottom line. I like to tune as much efficiency from what is there for free before spending a lot of money. double check clutch alignment, remove belt and chain spin the jackshaft maybe move one side foreward backward up down maybe you will notice it spins better or runs truer in the chain. check chain tension drive axle alignment, track tension, track alignment. do all the wheels roll nice is the rear axle square to the drive axle are the rails the same distance to the top cross bar? we all need something to do on these things before the snow flys

boost bottles:they claim to clean up low to mid range and increase power but give no numbers. I have talked to people who have them and say it "feels" better some said they dont notice anything. I probably wouldnt be scared to try a boost bottle if all it did was clean up a low or mid range bog it would be worth it, but on the other hand maybe a little fine tunning on the carbs or a little more backshift on the clutch could also do the same.

v force reeds: personally I would install them if they were free. At the speed races this winter I met 4 people who had a pair at home in the shop because they slowed them down on the radar or at least did not gain any thing. lets say you put them in and you gain the 3hp like they say. a 3 hp gain at the engine on a stock sled means nothing. on most big twins you are losing around 10hp at full throttle going under acceleration in the clutchs alone. read the track dyno and you are losing another 30-50hp or more on some sleds. Most sleds are ready have fiber reeds any way.

team roller clutch: same as v force. a lot of money for a little performance you could get for free

thundershift wieghts: now here is a money saver, for a 140 bucks you can have a the weiht tunning you can get. most weight sets are around 50-70
if you and your buddy went out and got two new machine and you spent a day or two playing with the weights against a clock or radar and then raced you could easily gain a sled length or more if your about the same size.

your oem dealer. they have charts telling the preload and shift rate for primary springs the compresion and torsion for secondary a big wall chart for gearing and drive weights and a ok selection of helixes learn to use them you can make a lot of improvement for little cash and still look stock. thats what they do thats what the aftermarket people do to build there kits.

what i am trying to say is ask what will i really gain with this product? for a stock sled on most trails it takes a good jump in power or dramatic loss in weight to gain tiny bits of performance.
 

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there are other very good reeds rather than V Force. Boyesson makes very good products. My uncle sells media for sand blasting to them. They are located not too far from here. Got free reeds for his one sled. According to him they actually R&D with sleds on the Dyno testing the reeds. Unlike V Force who just makes them the same design so they fit and estimates gains. Boyesson claims that is what Moto Tassarni does anyway(the ppl who make V Force reeds). And some back yard racers like that little bit of extra something to beat their buddy. Maybe that is just the ppl I know...
 

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Madcow, Right on brother.I see the same thing with Harleys'I'm gettin' this and this is better than that.And all anyone does is ride and say it feels faster.Keep your money in your pocket and turn a few wrenches and dial in what you got.The manufacturers spend tons of money designing things to work in the real world in a wide range of scenarios. So who are we to second guess them!!!

Spaceman
Mean Green Racing
Elyria, Ohio
 

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i agree totally. i really hate it when someone goes and spends $320 on a set of reeds for a $800 sled. personaly, i tuned what i got, clutch kit tuned in and the sleds got ufo's in it. and this zrt rocks... don't get mad at me but just to prove it i raced 4 polaris with it (not that it matters what kind of sled they were), a 700,600,500,500, and my sled easily won. and them up grades didn't really cost that much, and gave me more room for tuning. my .02

1992 arctic cat jag deluxe
1996 ZRT 600
 

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I'm with xltman, I'm confused...



http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com

I love B&M Coasters!
 

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hey madcow, just what exactly are you trying to get at?? im not the only one that has read this, and cant understand what you are saying. i get the general idea, but what is the deal, sis some aftermarket mfger rub you the wrong way or what?? or are you just generally getting some junk off your mind about all the "glorious" parts out there for you and i to buy, that will do nothing for us?? please try to get a point across, cause a few of us are confused here. thanx

1993 xlt sp 580
xtra 10 suspension
 

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I felt a need to address this topic brought up by madcow. I don't think that he is dissing aftermarket companies, or at least I hope that he isn't. I myself am part owner of a aftermarket company, but we dont' deal in the regular stuff like say black magic. We build lightweight exhausts for Arctics, polaris, soon to be ski-doo, and hopefully the RX-1, if we can get one. I also want to comment though that we do deal with a few aftermarket companies which i won't give names but they are pretty big. I don't want to say because we have an agreement that doesn't really let me devulge that info. But what i want to get across is that I make my living selling snowmobile aftermarket parts to the average consumer, this is the living I chose and I like it. But what I don't like is someone trying to tell everyone not to buy from people like me. I'm not against madcow, i think he does bring up some good points, but I also feel that we(myself, Black Magic, Hot Seat, Speed Werx etc.) sell stuff to people because it is somewaht a convience. People sometimes don't have, or don't want to spend a day or a week tuning a sled when they can go out and buy something and put it on in an hour.
I also want to state that I am not, and have never promoted any aftermarket company including myself, nor have I ever told anyone to go out and buy any kit from such.

I don't brake until I see God!
 

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the way i'm reading this is he's saying the average trail rider isn't going to notice enough the 5 hp gain and 10 lb loss from a new pipe to make it worth $400. when the sled is fine tuned versus box stock out-of-the-crate, these mods will work much better. i can definately agree with this. people that bolt on a pipe and expect the gains advertised are going to be disappointed if their sled isn't optimumly tuned. a guy i know is great at tuning his sled himself, and has a pipe, reeds, and clutch work- that's it, and it runs much much better than stock. it's all a matter of spending money wisely and getting the performance you want. it comes down to the bottom line which is the initial tuned state of the sled. it only makes sense to do the free mods first. hopefully this is generally what madcow was getting at- that's how i took it anyway.

There's no stopping Arctic Cat........ REALLY!!

'99 XC SP 500
 

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i think ajr, and xc have good points. i understand where ajr is comming from, the average consumer cant just bolt up a set of pipes or whatever, and expect the same results that someone who put those same parts on, then took the time to also change a few other things to compliment the recent purchase. most aftermarket dealers will tell you that you will need to change this or that to accomodate for the new parts, take pipes and cluthcing, if you dont change thejets in your carbs, they wont perform the way they are supposed to, thus the "fine tunning" comes into play. i guess i am fortunate that i know people that use to race in te drags as well as the stock and mod-stock classes, caause they will also tell you that you can buy all these performance boosting products, but without changing something else, these parts will not perform to the way the manufacturer intended, and almost all aftermarket producers have done extensive tests, so that you and i can use thes parts and make the other changes that they reccomend, to get the optimum performance out of our sleds with their parts.

1993 xlt sp 580
xtra 10 suspension
 

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Discussion Starter #10
no i dont want to sound like im telling people to not get aftermarket hop ups I get some myself what i am trying to say is to becarfull on what you by and ask questions and make them people explain what the difference is from stock. people need to realize a there is performance to be gained on a stock machine before you need to buy stuff. when i first got into aftermarket i got hosed by a few people and others worked. Also I just want people to understand that it takes a lot of weight loss or extra power to gain a little speed. example my friend has a 440xcr and he always wants to pipe it for more power. he only weighs 140lbs and the sled is light and there isnt to many people that can touch him on windy trails or in the ditch if he really didnt want them to. he doesnt realize this all he sees is that i beat him on the lakes or the straight run across the fields between corners. he beats other xcrs newer and older and even the 500's and xlt's some of the older 600 triple sleds in a 1000' drag but wet its not good enough.
 

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ahhh, now i see your point. it sucks to get roped in by a few who will not tell you everything.

 

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I think what it's coming to is what kind of bang are we getting for the buck! True! I've had buddies use the reeds and I've seen it hurt them. Some things are great for some sleds and some are better for others. But........I'll admit, if some aftermarket company has something out there that I think that I can possibly use and it's cheaper....why not try it? As the old saying goes...to each thier own. Good input though. Mark
 

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Madcows point was crystal clear, I thought!!!

Spaceman
Mean Green Racing
Elyria, Ohio
 

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The aftermarket is where we got things that are taken for granted today. Gas shocks, plastic skis, roller clutchs, progressive helixs, stronger lighter tracks, better windsheilds, cushie suspensions all came from the aftermarket. Any good idea will eventually get there. Skidoo is using boost bottles now. Carbon fiber reeds are being used. domed head inserts etc. etc. We need the aftermarket and for people to try the products. afterall, through the aftermarket we become the manufacturers research and development testers.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
good points hotrod. look at FASTinc. they had enough aftermarket to build a sled with buying as little as possible. now the factories have a new contender. there is also enough aftermarket like seats and suspension, tunnels and longer track options that i know for my self i will not buy a new machine for myself from this point on. I think for my style of riding that I will be better off customizing the sled I have to make it fit my size and style!!
 
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