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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was reading this article about the benefits of synthetics in the pulp and paper industry and thought that it gives a good explanation of why synthetic oil is better than mineral based (conventional), in a wide variety of applications... it can be directly related to the snowmobile world. And its been a while since anyone has brought this topic up. Also like to point out that the current engine manufacturing technology does not require a break in period with conventional oil, there are a ton of vehicles that have synthetic oil in them from the factory, like every single Cadillac engine. If you have a nice sled and want to make it last, synthetics are a must.


The benefits of synthetics

Extending the component life has long been recognized and proven as a benefit of synthetic hydrocarbons whether it be high-performance grease, circulating or gear oil. Now with pressure to reduce energy consumption, the inherent properties of these synthetic oils are becoming apparent.

With their natural high viscosity index, synthetic lubricants maintain their viscosity throughout the operating temperature range with minimal changes, providing a more effective lubricant film and helping protect metal surfaces from contact at even high temperatures. Moreover, synthetic lubricants lubricate at much lower temperatures resulting in significantly less stress on the machinery.

A synthetic lubricant is one that is synthesized and especially formulated for high performance in a wide variety of applications. With a more uniform structure, they exhibit lower traction coefficients compared with mineral oil, which translates to lower internal fluid friction. This gives them the capability to decrease oil temperature and help improve energy efficiency.

Mobil Industrial Lubricants engineers have for a long time known and marketed the energy saving attributes of synthetic lubricants.

The primary focus is to help increase productivity and this is where synthetic lubricants excel. With energy efficiency potential and the additional benefits of longer oil drain intervals it makes the selection of synthetic lubricants both practical and economical. Productivity remains the focus for development of Mobil Industrial Lubricants, but with extensive application expertise it is now possible to secure additional energy savings potential while increasing productivity. Despite higher purchasing costs, the correct application of synthetics can make good economic sense when comparing the benefits with other lubricant choices. With oil cost accounting for only a small percentage of total maintenance cost, investing in synthetics can help reduce an organization's overall maintenance budget.

Synthetic lubricants have grown in popularity and use due to both the advancement in equipment designs and the more severe operating conditions to achieve higher productivity at reduced cost. Mobil Industrial Lubricants offer synthetic lubrication solutions for a trouble-free and low-risk mill operation. Whether in a wood yard gearbox where the user is seeking reduced energy costs or in the dryer section where higher machine speeds are stressing the oil, synthetic lubricants are worth serious consideration. As productivity drives competitiveness, missing the opportunity may be costlier than one might think.

http://www.risiinfo.com/techchannels/millmaintenance/Maximizing-productivity.html?source=email_MT
 

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Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
 

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xcr440 said:
Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
If rust will form in your engine with synthetic then it needs help anyways.
 

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IMO syn blends are the way to go, you take all the good attributes of mineral oil and add synthetic additives to get other needed properties.
 

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ArcticCatZR800 said:
xcr440 said:
Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
If rust will form in your engine with synthetic then it needs help anyways.
huh? condenstation can and does occur in every engine which can turn to rust. no matter what, even if the engine is in top condition

Empire087 said:
IMO syn blends are the way to go, you take all the good attributes of mineral oil and add synthetic additives to get other needed properties.
Thats what I have began to use. I have done some backyard testing and my valves are just as clean with Mystic sea&snow as with klotz at 1/3rd the price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
xcr440 said:
Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
I don't know, the article didn't mention anything about rust inhibitors. But I'm sure that there are synthetics out there that do have rust inhibitors in them.
 
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Empire087 said:
IMO syn blends are the way to go, you take all the good attributes of mineral oil and add synthetic additives to get other needed properties.
You DO realize there are no legal requirements on percentage of blend ratios? A manufacturer can put a single DROP of synthetic in a bottle of dino, and call it a BLEND. If you can't afford 100% synthetic, you are better off mixing your own blend yourself at a 50-50 ratio.
 
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xcr440 said:
ArcticCatZR800 said:
xcr440 said:
Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
If rust will form in your engine with synthetic then it needs help anyways.

huh? condenstation can and does occur in every engine which can turn to rust. no matter what, even if the engine is in top condition

So, engines that have synthetic oil in it will rust "because they lack rust inhibitors". Ok, got it. [thumb] Hmm Amsoil (for one) doesn't seem to agree with you that synthetic oil will cause rusty engines. : http://www.knowyouroil.com/testimonials/rust_protection_amsoil_motorcycle_oil.htm

My last car I used synthetic since new (following the break-in). Sold at 150,000 miles. Engine never been apart once. Ran like brand new when I sold it. Didn't burn a drop of oil. With my current car, I again switch to synthetic after break-in. It's at 188,000 miles now. Runs like a top. Never been apart. Both cars have always been driven HARD.



Guess I'm just wondering why every synthetic oil user isn't winding up with detroyed engines. Seems like a major defect/oversight in motor oil production like that would make the nightly news programs.
[confused]
 

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I am up in the air about synthetic lately.

I work in a shop. Customer brought his own oil in for a oil change. Brought his own filter too telling me that its a synthetic oil filter.

It was a slow day and I got into doing some research on this so called synthetic filter. Called around and they were selling for 40 bucks a piece. Went to the filters website and looked it up. Compared it with the $5 dollar filter we sell and guess what. They are Identical. I mean the micron count everything exactly the same.

Personally I like to run synthetic in my truck, Have since new. Regular Fram Filter and change the oil every 5000 k ( Not the 8000 Ford told me). One thing I will say about synthetic is in the winter it is faster getting to critical engine components when cold.

But after the filter incident, I dont take what synthetic salespeople have to say as golden anymore......


Just my 2 Cents......
 

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MakingTheWinterGoByFaster said:
Empire087 said:
IMO syn blends are the way to go, you take all the good attributes of mineral oil and add synthetic additives to get other needed properties.
You DO realize there are no legal requirements on percentage of blend ratios? A manufacturer can put a single DROP of synthetic in a bottle of dino, and call it a BLEND. If you can't afford 100% synthetic, you are better off mixing your own blend yourself at a 50-50 ratio.
Honestly I would never mix 50/50 syn non syn oil as your still not getting a modified oil. It's just two oils mixed together. It's like if you mix sprite with coke they don't chemically combine giving you something else. Usually oils are chemically engineered. Also I find most synthetic blends have a higher amount of lubrication ratings over full synthetics(at least in snowmobiles) that I have found. I've always considered running syn oil in my truck, but have never ran into any issues running mineral oil in it. 5k or once every year or so depending on how much driving I do(my odometer quit working recently) I change my oil and filter and I have had no trouble. I run my truck hard, and it still runs good.
 

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MakingTheWinterGoByFaster said:
xcr440 said:
ArcticCatZR800 said:
xcr440 said:
Good read on the slipperyness of syn oils but what about the lack of rust inhibators in syn oils. There are many engine builders who swear by dino(regular) oils for the rust protection.
If rust will form in your engine with synthetic then it needs help anyways.

huh? condenstation can and does occur in every engine which can turn to rust. no matter what, even if the engine is in top condition

So, engines that have synthetic oil in it will rust "because they lack rust inhibitors". Ok, got it. [thumb] Hmm Amsoil (for one) doesn't seem to agree with you that synthetic oil will cause rusty engines. : http://www.knowyouroil.com/testimonials/rust_protection_amsoil_motorcycle_oil.htm

My last car I used synthetic since new (following the break-in). Sold at 150,000 miles. Engine never been apart once. Ran like brand new when I sold it. Didn't burn a drop of oil. With my current car, I again switch to synthetic after break-in. It's at 188,000 miles now. Runs like a top. Never been apart. Both cars have always been driven HARD.



Guess I'm just wondering why every synthetic oil user isn't winding up with detroyed engines. Seems like a major defect/oversight in motor oil production like that would make the nightly news programs.
[confused]
never said they will have destroyed engines. Look up indydan on hcs. See what he says about syn vs dino oil. He is a very repuable sled engine build. He even has his own billit cranks.

Miles mean nothing in a auto engine. I have 3 vehicles with over 200,000 miles. All run like a top and have ran dino, syn and blends.

I kow for a fact that amsoil interceptor will allow some rust on the crank. I have had it happen. Along with a few others on the internet. Seems as though the film strength of it is thinner than others. I also fogg the crap out of my engines.

Ok, yes syns have some rust inhibators but not as much as a dino oil.
 

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One of the things about the comparison of oils like this, is the conditions....

Cars, trucks, and 4 stroke sleds are wet-sump motors, where the airflow through the crankcase is very limited. Also what airflow is allowed as the engine cools is pulled in through a small particulate air filter.

2-stroke sleds on the other hand, the crankcase is part of the engine airflow so that everything that runs through it for air, goes through the crankcase first.. And there's no real filter.

Another condition change of the everyday car vs. the sled, is the usage.. Cars are used year round, while sleds are usually parked for more of the year than they are ridden. Hard for rust to form overnight, but not as hard for it to form in 6 months.

My explorer has had synthetic since new, and at 130k the motor still pulls like new while the body is rotting off. My sleds get something with real oil in it.

What's good for one ain't necessarily good for the other...
 
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