[MuscleD]

[confused2]

I guess this whole thing is pretty simple in my opinion. You shouldn't have a problem with stopping for a minute to ensure that you're not breaking the law. Look at it this way, those same "a s sholes" could be saving you from being in an accident caused by a drunk sledder.

that's the thing. We don't mind being stopped for a few minutes. We dont mind being legal and obeying the law. If a dnr wants me to stop ill gladly stop and so will 90 percent riders. So why are they teaching us all you have to do to avoid a ticket is to not help others? Why trap when we will gladly stop?

 

[picman]

These actions just leave a bad taste in my mouth if this situation went down exactly as stated. Now, the problem-at least here in WI- is that the DNR is given far greater latitude that other enforcement agencies in my opinion.
I need to look into something. I am wondering if on the trail a rider would be required to stop and render aid at what appears to be any type of accident. That would put a whole new spin on this.

I don't disagree that law enforcement can come upon someone in almost any situation and end up arresting someone for being intoxicated. I just think this seems manufactured.

I would rather they just publish where and when they would be doing these types of checks. You get busted under those circumstances, you deserve it!!!!!!! MI did this on the roadways years ago and they STILL busted many, many drunk drivers.

I don't disagree with many of your points. I just see things from a different angle.

Riders in WI should beware, the DNR is making a serious effort on the trails this year. With this weather pattern we have, their efforts are going to be concentrated in a much smaller area than a normal winter.

 

[zecow224]

i have not heard of this but i have heard of other so called stings that they do on the trail.

 

[fasttxl340]

[confused2]

I guess this whole thing is pretty simple in my opinion. You shouldn't have a problem with stopping for a minute to ensure that you're not breaking the law. Look at it this way, those same "a s sholes" could be saving you from being in an accident caused by a drunk sledder.

that's the thing. We don't mind being stopped for a few minutes. We dont mind being legal and obeying the law. If a dnr wants me to stop ill gladly stop and so will 90 percent riders. So why are they teaching us all you have to do to avoid a ticket is to not help others? Why trap when we will gladly stop?

i have to agree. why not do like they do on highways on major holiday weekends, with the whole roadside checks and all. if there are that many wardens, it wouldnt take much time at all to get through a group of sledders for sticker checks and a quick breath smell and send them on there way. I think they should crack down on this, but not the way they are doing it here.
on another scenario, was at a speed run a few years ago in the hayward area and had a dnr officer sitting just off track writing tickets to race sleds that went out of bounds (off track testing on the side of the track) without a registration or trail sticker.

 

[ripperd]

I guess this whole thing is pretty simple in my opinion. You shouldn't have a problem with stopping for a minute to ensure that you're not breaking the law. Look at it this way, those same "a s sholes" could be saving you from being in an accident caused by a drunk sledder.

No, it is a blatant violation of the constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_checkpoint#Legality

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

 

[flatlander_summit]

Dean,

Sobriety checkpoints are within the Constitution. When a sobriety checkpoint is conducted it must be conducted in a methodical way. In the situation where the officers used the disabled sled it's likely not considered a checkpoint since the vehicles aren't forced to stop but rather those who choose to stop. If the officers encounter the individuals while they are stopped there is no "seizure" of the person. If an officer simply stops in the community and talks with an individual there is no seizure of that person. Further, if the officers met and talked with every person that stopped they had a methodology behind the stop and did nothing abstract. This is a similar situation to the "to catch a predator" stings on television. I can go into the full legal analysis, but I don't feel like bringing work into my leisure activity.

Again, the officers likely weren't administering "mandatory" breathalizers. An officer would need probable to arrest an individual for driving under the influence. If an officer doesn't smell alcohol, witness slurred speech or bloodshot eyes that person would not have to complete the breathalizer.

I have personally had a friend who received a DUI conviction for stopping to help an individual change a tire when it was -20. The officer had smelled his breath when an officer came up on the activity. He then had probably cause to give my friend a breathalizer and administer the sobriety tests and arrest him.

 

[SnowAttitude]

I was stopped 3 times in a about 5 hours, by the same guy.
First time no problem
Second time kind of annoying, told him you have already checked me.
Third time really annoying. I have to show the same stuff to the guy.

Like others have said, I hope the DNR from every state reads this.

I have nothing to hide, but setting up traps just hurts the snowmobile community.
WE depend on each other, especially in NEED, even if it was someone that had a few beers, I would hope they stop and help me, then drive away, worried it was a trap.

AGAIN, No One wants drunk drivers out there.
Just because someone is "racing" down the trial, doesnt mean they been drinking, some people are just stupid.

Oh and just a side note, ( not saying drinking and driving is good,, But, JUST saying)
When I took a class back in 80,taught by the Hwy patrol, they said that a person with 1 beer was less likly to get into a auto accident then someone sober. 2 beers was about even 3 beers went up, 4+ beers went way up. That was way before PC, now even if this was true, they wouldnt show it, just like what we seen with global warming. JUST SAYING

 

[MakingTheWinterGoByFaster]

I don think so. Youve already broken the law at that point, they just found a way to make you stop.

How have I "ALREADY" broken the law? they have no clue if i have been drinking, sled is properly registered, trail permits purchased. 90% of riders out there will not have broken any laws and they are trapped into this situation. Just my 2 cents

ToU

He means if you're stopped and drunk, you can't try to say you just downed a couple beers while they weren't looking so you didn't drive drunk.

Likely they are doing it this way because they had a problem with people running from them if they flagged them over or are being cautious in a time when people who get hurt fleeing from them turn around and sue them for chasing them. It's safer for everyone if the people they want to check are already stopped.

 

[MakingTheWinterGoByFaster]

I guess this whole thing is pretty simple in my opinion. You shouldn't have a problem with stopping for a minute to ensure that you're not breaking the law. Look at it this way, those same "a s sholes" could be saving you from being in an accident caused by a drunk sledder.

No, it is a blatant violation of the constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_checkpoint#Legality

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

We could debate for hours the scenario - 'Would you rather be dead and retain all your freedoms (which are no good if you're dead), or be alive thanks to a minor inconvenience which saved you from being killed as a result of that inconvenience.'

 

[ripperd]

...If the officers encounter the individuals while they are stopped there is no "seizure" of the person. If an officer simply stops in the community and talks with an individual there is no seizure of that person. Further, if the officers met and talked with every person that stopped they had a methodology behind the stop and did nothing abstract...

It sounds like they did more than talk. They checked registration, trail stickers, etc.

Lets say the scenario goes like this:

1. I am riding along the trail, see sled on side of trail with said woman.
2. I stop by said woman and check if they need any help.
3. She says, "I'm DNR, please see my fellow DNR agents over there to 'say hi'".
4. I decline and take off down the trail.

Do you think they'd give chase? From the posts it sounds to me like they would, and at that point they'd try to arrest me for fleeing an officer.

One question to always ask an officer of the law in situations situations such as these: "Am I free to leave?" If you are not already under suspicion of illegal activity, they must let you go.

We could debate for hours the scenario - 'Would you rather be dead and retain all your freedoms (which are no good if you're dead), or be alive thanks to a minor inconvenience which saved you from being killed as a result of that inconvenience.'

Way to over dramatize the situation to the extremes. Run in's with LEO's are rarely an inconvenience.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I do wish I had a few more of my freedoms. Especially the one to travel from state to state via airplane without having to go through HALF the worthless security theater bullshit at the airports. Wanna know something funny? I left my pocketknife in my carryon after camping last fall. It made it all the way to Montana with me. Where, when I was getting ready at the airport to fly back home, I saw it in there as I was stuffing my sweatshirt into my carry on. Isn't that some BS?

 

[flatlander_summit]

If they tell you to "go see that DNR officer over there" the threshold of the person feeling that they are not free to leave would probably going to be crossed.

You're right, Dean, that is the threshold question right there if the person feels they are free to leave or they feel are under arrest.

 

[polaris_xc_racing]

I fail to see the problem with this? You're riding along and you see someone broken down (atleast you think). It happens to be a cop, they say while your here let me see your registration and insurance, okay you show it to them. Mind taking a breathilizer while your here? Nope, they give you the breathilizer you pass it, now you're good to go. If you are legal what's the problem? I know they've done it around here before, I've had people stop to the group I was riding with and say watch out because it just happened to them. Watch out for what? I'm registered and insured and haven't been drinking, not big deal to me. They are just doing their job. Why does everyone have such a problem with this?

 

[xcr440]

Issue is Wi has alot of "gung ho" wardens that will try anything to get $$ from you. Most are legit officers but there are alot of them in the northwoods of wi that are pretty sly guys.

 

[picman]

^^^What he said. Our DNR has a serious image problem right now. If true, this will not enhance that image.

The problem in these scenarios is that most people do not know/understand the PROCESS that law enforcement is supposed to follow.

It should be
1 make contact
2 notice the possiblity of intoxication
3 sobriety manuevers-just a little tricky in the snow!
4 breath test-this is just icing on the cake-not the proof!
5 arrest or release

This situation just seems manufactured. It makes no sense to do it this way.

 

[fasttxl340]

Issue is Wi has alot of "gung ho" wardens that will try anything to get $$ from you. Most are legit officers but there are alot of them in the northwoods of wi that are pretty sly guys.

guys AND GALS!!!!,,, know of one particular fat ass warden b!~ch in the hayward area that has sat at the boat landing with a bathroom scale and weighed people coming in on pontoon boats to see if they exceeded the max wt limit for the boat.

 

[Sleds-650]

Issue is Wi has alot of "gung ho" wardens that will try anything to get $$ from you. Most are legit officers but there are alot of them in the northwoods of wi that are pretty sly guys.

guys AND GALS!!!!,,, know of one particular fat ass warden b!~ch in the hayward area that has sat at the boat landing with a bathroom scale and weighed people coming in on pontoon boats to see if they exceeded the max wt limit for the boat.

I know who you're talking about

 

[ripperd]

I fail to see the problem with this? You're riding along and you see someone broken down (atleast you think). It happens to be a cop, they say while your here let me see your registration and insurance, okay you show it to them. Mind taking a breathilizer while your here? Nope, they give you the breathilizer you pass it, now you're good to go. If you are legal what's the problem? I know they've done it around here before, I've had people stop to the group I was riding with and say watch out because it just happened to them. Watch out for what? I'm registered and insured and haven't been drinking, not big deal to me. They are just doing their job. Why does everyone have such a problem with this?

If you volunteer to provide your registration or whatnot that is fine.

What is wrong, is if you are required to do so when not already under suspicion.

The bill of rights is all about trying to prevent this exact type of police state. If things like these are allowed it is a slippery slope to completely erode our supposedly inalienable rights - that of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The very things our country was founded on.

 

[GoldDog]

Pigs off campus!

 

[flatlander_summit]

I fail to see the problem with this? You're riding along and you see someone broken down (atleast you think). It happens to be a cop, they say while your here let me see your registration and insurance, okay you show it to them. Mind taking a breathilizer while your here? Nope, they give you the breathilizer you pass it, now you're good to go. If you are legal what's the problem? I know they've done it around here before, I've had people stop to the group I was riding with and say watch out because it just happened to them. Watch out for what? I'm registered and insured and haven't been drinking, not big deal to me. They are just doing their job. Why does everyone have such a problem with this?

If you volunteer to provide your registration or whatnot that is fine.

What is wrong, is if you are required to do so when not already under suspicion.

The bill of rights is all about trying to prevent this exact type of police state. If things like these are allowed it is a slippery slope to completely erode our supposedly inalienable rights - that of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The very things our country was founded on.

Dean do you have a militia built up? [duel]

 

[Knuckles777]

SO ultimately we all understand that being legit and sober on the trails is necessary. We all (for the most party) practice safe methods on public trails. We all realize WDNR is trying to crack down on safe riding BUT the real issue here is at what cost. We all are familiar with the distressed rider on the lake but what about the WDNR patrolman AND WOMAN that purposely passed and pulled in front of sleds to pull them over. Has anyone been pulled over? I've seen it first hand and frankly I believe the WDNR patrolWOMAN was being completely reckless! She literally passed us, got in front of the pack and SLAMMED ON THE BRAKES!!!!! We were lucky to not all have crashed into her! Has anyone else had any "run ins" similar to this one? Let's hear about it....